HHMI Newsgroup Archives
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 07:26:09 +0000
From: Eddie Chumney
To: heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org
Subject: REPLIES: How are non-Jews to express their faith in YHVH?
Dear Mishpochah (family):
I pray that many of you enjoyed and were able to gain fresh insight into the Word of YHVH from the article last weeek on the subject:
"How are non-Jews to express their faith in YHVH?"
The responses that I got from this article were VERY POSITIVE. Some of those responses are included in this e-mail. The VAST MAJORITY of the responses were POSITIVE.
However because there are so many people on the newsgroup and because the desire of our newsgroup members is to LEARN and STUDY about the Hebraic roots of Christianity, there are those people who are conducting their study of the Hebraic roots who bring with them "traditional religious strongholds" that need to be overcome regarding understanding the Torah as it relates the the teachings of the Messiah and the NT.
There will ALWAYS be SOME who IGNORE the scripture evidence presented and reply with a traditional Christian response using common NT scripture passages to those who want to present that Torah is for ALL believers in Yeshua / Jesus as the Messiah.
In the next several weeks, I would like to respond to the answers most commonly given when one tries to explain that a follower of Messiah should express His faith in Messiah AFTER they are saved by following Torah and showing our love to Him by KEEPING His commandments (John 14:15).
After sharing with you the MANY POSITIVE comments, I would like to share with you a traditional response given by many to these views. This response is regarding Acts 15. The person who replied presented the view that Acts 15 teaches that non-Jews are ONLY required to observe the "four necessary things" mentioned in this chapter. This demonstrates that one can be a JEWISH BELIEVER in Messiah and be INFLUENCED by traditional Christianity in how one interprets and seeks to understand the words of the Messiah and the NT and NOT have a HEBRAIC understanding. Therefore, in a SEPARATE ARTICLE, I would like to share with you a HEBRAIC VIEW of Acts 15.
This e-mail contains two things:
#1) POSITIVE COMMENTS from the article, "How are non-Jews to express
their faith in YHVH?"
#2) A reply from a JEWISH BELIEVER trying to express that non-Jews are NOT to express their faith in YHVH through Messiah by following Torah based upon Acts 15.
Remember, my reply to Acts 15 from a HEBRAIC view will be given in a SEPARATE ARTICLE.
Eddie Chumney
Hebraic Heritage Ministries Int'l
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From: Ginny Wilkerson
Subject: Re: How are non-Jews to express their faith in YHVH?
To: heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org
very helpful to me as well...Ginny Wilkerson.Beth Chazone , Oxford Alabama.
From: Anna Rinna
Subject: Re: How are non-Jews to express their faith in YHVH?
To: heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org
Eddie
I enjoyed your email very much...especially the part that it's okay for non-Jews to have "bacon breath" but the Jews are not supposed to... :-)
As it was explained to me that once we start keeping Sabbath, then we start to understand...that is so true.
I never understood it b4. But now I do...The Torah is ever for both Jew and Goyim.
4Ever is 4Ever...God didn't interrupt His plan or Feasts just for the Church or change His mind. He's not skitsophrenic...don't know how that is spelled.. .meaning He's not crazy.
Anna
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From: Sue Blake
Subject: Re: How are non-Jews to express their faith in YHVH?
To: heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org
Thank you for explaining this so thoroughly. There has been so much contrary to this being written that I was beginning to question. I know what is written and I am destressed at the Christians who as I am are in a Messianic congregation and I know what you mean. What does one do and where do we go?!?!!
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From: Harriette Blaskis
Subject: Re: How are non-Jews to express their faith in YHVH?
To: heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org
Eddie,
I agree with you totally. What I'm finding is there is so many different beliefs, the only way that I can find what is right is thru reading and prayer. The Torah is Gods Laws not mans. If someone tells me something that I don't understand I pray that God will show me the truth in his word, and he shows me, but if man has twisted it in any way he shows me. In reading and studing there are alot of false teachings. The KJV says do not be decieved.
The answer to your ? is to keep the law, commandments, statutes, and ordinance of the Torah for all generations not just in Moses time.
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From: Jan Jacobs
Subject: Re: How are non-Jews to express their faith in YHVH?
To: heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org
Shalom
As a Christian and non Jew believing in Messiah I had become become very confused by the practices and teachings of the christian church. I was sitting at my computer about 6 months ago when it was as if I heard a voice telling me Jew and Gentile in Yaweh's sight, had to be ONE; for there were no sections in Heaven.
Church practiced different............Your explanation with scripture to Jill was very enlightening and encouraging for me. I have now printed it off and thank you.
Jan Jacobs
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From: Gina Scott
Subject: Holy Days
To: heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org
Eddie
I enjoy reading the emails--your teaching is so solid in the Word.
Gina Scott
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From: Sunny King
To: <heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org>
Subject: Good job!
Eddie,
Just a word of encouragement regarding your recent E-mail about our obedience to Torah as the full expression of the love of our Messiah, Yahshua, prompted by Jill's query. People forget that a 'great multitude' came out from Egypt with the Israelites. They forget the repeated inclusion of the sojourner, alien or stranger in both the blessings and the performance of Torah. Psalm 1 and many other Psalms (especially 119!) show that the instruction of our Father is to be desired, studied and treasured! They also neglect the end of the scriptures: Rev 12:17 - And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of Elohim, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah. Or
Revelation 14:12 - Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of Elohim, and the faith of Yashua.
I fear that the famine of the true word of Yahweh draws near, as mentioned in Amos 8:11-13.
May His shalom rest upon you,
-Sunny King
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From: Jean-Claud Chevalme
Subject: Re: How are non-Jews to express their faith in YHVH?
To: heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org
> Loving Messiah by keeping His commandments (John 14:15) is NOT an "extreme"
>
Dear brother Eddie:
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ. For whatever its worth: I have been reading quite a bit of your material and I always find myself to be in complete agreement with you balanced view of scripture, which I believe is the truth which God desires individuals to walk into. Keep up the good work. God bless you.
Jean-Claude
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Subject: Re: How are non-Jews to express their faith in YHVH?
From: Mitchell & Cathryn Harris
To: <heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org>
Eddie,
I very much appreciate the truth that you have clarified in this message. Yeshua comes not to save us from Torah but from the penalties of disobeying Torah. Clear and simple.
Mitch Harris
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From: Andrew and Donna Moens
To: <heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org>
Subject: Re: How are non-Jews to express their faith in YHVH?
Mr. Chumney,
Thank you, thank you thank you!!! Your response to Jill answered so many of my questions as well! I have heard many of the statements you have so clearly refuted. I will use this to help defend my Torah observant walk.
Donna Moens
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From: Jannio Perello
To: heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org
Subject: Re: How are non-Jews to express their faith in YHVH?
I wonder how Jim manages with the "those ceremonial requirements demanded by the Law" called TITHES and OFFERINGS, BAPTISMS,OIL ANNOITING??? To name a few.
Great answer Eddie!
Jannio Perello
Kehilat B'nei Sefardim
S. Pedro Sula, Honduras
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From: Julie Almanrode
To: heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org
Subject: Re: How are non-Jews to express their faith in YHVH?
This is very good. Thank you. One comment that I think expresses the whole issue. Where do we find Jews and non-Jews 'sojourning' together?
Ultimately this is what YHVH had in mind with 'one new man'. Christians and Jews tend to keep separate due to different theologies.
There may be a few Jewish people in Christian churches and a few non-Jews in Messianic congregations, but this is NOT sojourning together here while we wait for the Promise of His Coming! This separation is NOT the expression of Yahshua and does not allow the Spirit to be powerful among the lost.
Thanks again,
Julie Almanrode
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From: John Spruyt
To: <heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org>
Subject: Re Re: How are non-Jews to express their faith in YHVH?
Dear Eddie:
Thank-you for your E-mail, it expressed interesting insights that I will incorporate into my book.
I personally don't believe that we "have to" keep YHWH's holidays, but we may, and in so doing come to better understand why it is that they were given to all nations.
When "Israel" (and the non-Jews present) broke YHWH's Law at Sinai, they were forbidden to keep the feasts until they entered Canaan. The Apostolic Church for a time obeyed, but when they fell into disobedience they too lost the keeping of the feasts, and when they enter Canaan, they too will once again begin with the keeping of the Passover Supper of the Lamb.
Shalom,
John Spruyt
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From: Christine Christensen
To: heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org
Subject: Re: How are non-Jews to express their faith in YHVH?
Eddie:
I just wanted to say that your response was AWESOME, simply AWESOME. I will send this to friends and family who question WHY I follow Torah (while they act like it is a huge burden).
Thanks!
Christine Christensen
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To: heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org
Subject: Re: How are non-Jews to express their faith in YHVH?
From: Rosalyn M Seglem
Dear Eddie,
That was a very good teaching. One of the things that seem to be a stumbling block is the word Jew or Jewish. For some reason the Jews think they are the only ones, they haven't read their Torah or Tenach correctly. There were 12 or 13 tribes that received the word of the Lord. They were all Hebrews. Yahweh knows who and where they all are even if the Jews don't! Yahweh is calling many of us that are part of the "nations" back to the ancient paths and Torah. It is only when we learn Torah and the commands that we really begin to see who Yashua was and is. A Torah observant Jewish Rabbi, our Yashuat Elohim.
Another stumbling block for Christians is the verse you quoted when Yashua says: "I have not come to do away with the Torah but to fulfil it. Christians think that means that it's all over because Yashua fulfilled it. May be you have a word study on the Hebrew word that was translated "fulfil" that they believe means done with. Even though Yashua purposely stated that He did not come to do away with the commands pastors keep using that verse to tell their people that it is done away with.
Yahweh Bless you,
Rosalyn
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Subject: Re: How are non-Jews to express their faith in YHVH?
From: Cherie Carter
To: <heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org>
Thank you! This is great information.
God Bless,
Cherie Carter
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From: Diane Gunka
To: heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org
Subject: Re: How are non-Jews to express their faith in YHVH?
Dear Eddie:
Thanks for this. This is an excellent concise, to-the point teaching on important issues.
Shalom,
Di
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From: Jeffrey Clarke
To: <heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org>
Excellent article Eddie on "How are non-Jews to express their faith in YHVH?", really enjoyed it.
Jeffrey Clarke
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From: Carla Hoisington
To: heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org
Subject: response to article
I just wanted to tell you how excellent your response to Jill was on whether non-Jewish believers should keep Torah and observe YHVH's commanded holidays. As a non-Jewish believer in Yeshua and Torah for going on four years, I have never known anything as powerful as having put the Messiah and the Torah together.(There is nothing more powerful) Your book, Restoring the Two Houses of Israel, was one of the deciding factors that made me know that I had to start obeying the Torah out of love and fear of YHVH. I am so thankful that there are believers like you that can put the truth into words and be a light to others who are seeking a true relationship with the Father. I pray the Lord will continue to bless you, give you more understanding, and the desire to continue to teach others.
Love in Yeshua,
Carla Hoisington
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WHAT ABOUT ACTS 15 ??????
From: Blaine V. Krisp
Subject: Re: How are non-Jews to express their faith in YHVH?
To: heb_roots_chr@hebroots.org
Shalom,
In reference to your e-mail, Should gentiles keep the Law of Moses? We are in need to understand somethings before we delve into coming against our brethren. In the early century, we find that the faith of excepting Yeshua as the Messiah was mainly Jewish. When we began to see it explode to the Gentiles, like a natural thing, we find that there becomes a desire to convert those who are not like us to do the things that we should do. I am Jewish and I believe in Yeshua. Does that mean that the gentiles should do what I believe that they should do "convert into Judaism? NO! this is not what Mr Eddie Chumney from the Hebraic Heritagte Ministries Int'l is giving you. What this man is not telling you is what the Holy Spirit had estabelished in Acts 15 & Acts 21.
Acts 15:22: Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren: 23: And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: 24: Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 25: It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26: Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27: We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. 28: For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29: That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. 30: So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
We have from the Holy Spirit that the gentiles as far as touching the laws that:
1. they should abstain from meats offered to idols
2. and from things strangled
3. and from fornication
Are gentiles supposed to keep the 10 Commandments of course, the Laws of Moses are more than just keeping of the 10 Commandments. We have ordanances, customs, Laws, Comandments, and Sacrifices. The laws that govern the Nation of Israel are not to keep, and the Laws thats pertaining to the Sacrifical System Gentiles are not to keep. Every Nation has its own governing laws. This Nation has more laws than you can shake a stick at.are gentiles still to keep the sacrifical system? of course not. Are gentiles to keep the Jewish feasts no. It is not required. Because of the taking away of the Jewish things in Christianity, God has applied the difference between Christianity and the Jewish people. The Jewish people are to keep these thing because God has commanded them to keep these things, but for the Christians. if they want to keep these things. its ok, but not a requirement.
As the centuries has passed you have more Christians than you have Jewish believers. There becomes an opposition of what was intended for the Jewish people to Keep the Laws of Moses. Christians have presented and said to the Jewish people that you should convert into Christianity and not keep the Laws of Moses. Paul was preaching to the gentiles and there were Jewish people there who were keeping the Laws of Moses. Paul was saying that the gentiles did not need to keep the Laws of Moses and there were Jewish people there. This was not right for the Jewish people were to keep the Laws of Moses. Let me remind you that Paul was sent by God to the Gentiles and not to the Jewish people.
Acts 21:20: And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21: And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22: What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23: Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24: Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25: As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26: Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.
I do not know how clearer you can get. The scriptures are very clear about the Jewish people are to keep the Laws of Moses and the gentiles are not demaned to keep all the Laws of Moses.
There are people like Eddie Chumney from Hebraic Heritage Ministries Int'l who is desired to be Jewish. I do not know if he is or not, but if anyone who is not Jewish who calls him/herself Jewish is in direct violation of God and this is what the scriptures says about this kind of person:
Rev 2:9: I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
It is ok for a gentile or Christian to have a desire to keep the Laws of Moses, to keep Shabbat, The feasts exc., but to be calling yourself a Jew and you are not, this is not right. The MJAA is a very good orginization and I would not seek to bring Judgement against them Mr. Chumney least God comes against you and brings forth Judgement against You!
Shalom,
Blaine V. Krisp
A Prophet of God
A Jew, from the Tribe of Levi, A decendent of the High Priest.
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