HHMI Newsgroup Archives
From: heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 1997 3:01 AM
To: Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup
Subject: Re: Roots of Christianity
>To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
>From: "Jose J. Bernal" <jbernal@carroll.com>
>Subject: Re: Who is Echad?
>
>To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
>From: Lars-Toralf.Storstrand@online.no (xlts@online.no)
>Subject: Who is Echad?
>
>
>I just wanted to share with you, my fellow rooters, something that for me is very new, but that I am sure that some of you (the rabbi's,
> Eddie and Cheryle at least) know beforehand. To me it was highly enlightening to see it:
>
>Remember when Y'shua said: "I am the way, the truth and the life" - when He spoke this, He identified Himself with the L-rd G-d, YHWH -
>in a way that was so clear that even the P'rushim didn't misunderstand it. That was why they became so mad at Him (I believe!)
>
>The Word Echad (in the Shema: S'hma Israel Adonai Elocheinu, Adonai Echad) is usually translated as being "ONE" - as far as I understand
>hebrew the word is better translated as UNIQUE - because there are no one like the L-rd, no-one at all. No one compares to Him. He is
>truly UNIQUE.
>
>But the word contains more. It is an acronym for the words: EMET (Truth) CHAI'M (Life) and DEREKH (Way, Road).
>
>Therefore, we say that Y'shua identified himself with G-d, when he said, what's been quoted on top. In fact he said: I am ECHAD! I am
>the G-d of Israel!
>
>
>
>Dear Brother,
>
>Shalom. Thank you and baruch Ha Shem, that the Ruach ha Kodesh has revealed it to you. Alas, many on this list ascribe to the Ebionite
>heresy that Y'shua was merely a man chosen by G-d for his righteousness to be Israel's Mashiach. I concur with you, and I know
>that I speak for many others on this list. If Y'shua were not HaShem, then does the Psalmist call Him L-rd? According to Isaiah the
>Prophet, there is only One L-rd. You and I know Y'shua boldly stated that He and the Father are One, and "Before Abraham was born, IAM," to
>which the Judeans, knowing fully well the implications of this declaration; took up stones to stone Him for what they perceived to be
>a blasphemous statement on Y'shua's part. The L-rd is G-d and Y'shua ha Machiach is L-rd; the Word of G-d clearly tells us that this can
>only be revealed by the Ruach ha Kodesh.
>
>Shalom.
>
>JOSE J. Bernal
>
>
>*******************************************************************
>
>To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
>From: "Jose J. Bernal" <jbernal@carroll.com>
>Subject: Re: Who is Echad?
>
>
>Dear Brother,
>
>Shalom alecheim. Forgive me, but I thought I was on the Roots of Faith chat postings when I made the comment below. In that chat
>room, there are found the most cultish and eclectic group of people I have ever encountered. Most on that site do not hold the Brith
>Chadasha as scripture, others go further than that; they consider it heretical! I know, I have been continously berated for my belief in
>the veracity of the scriptural canon. Apologies to brother Eddie, for this is his
>site; and brother Eddie, I ordered your book by the way. I just mailed the check last night. With it I enclosed something I wanted to
>share with you. I hope it blesses you.
>
>Shalom.
>
>JOSE J. Bernal
>
>From Eddie:
>***************
>
>For the "Mishpachah / family" on this list, Jose is talking about the "Neztarim Judism / Christianity" movement. There is a
>listserve called, "Roots of Faith". There Web Site is:
>
> http://www.netzarim.co.il/
>
>
>For your information, the scripture tell us that we are to be "discerning" and do you think that G-d would have a GENUINE movement
>back to the Hebraic Roots of Christianity and there not also be a counterfeit by the enemy?
>
>Just so that you are aware of this movement and what they believe, they claim to be going back to the "roots" of the Christian
>faith forsaking "Roman / Greco Christianity" by embracing the Torah, keeping of the Sabbath and Festivals and claim to believe that Jesus
>is Messiah HOWEVER they also DO NOT believe that Yeshua/Jesus is God manifested in the flesh, they DO NOT accept that the New Testament is
>God's Word, they DO NOT accept that Jews need to accept Jesus as Messiah to be saved and thus do not "witness" to the Jews that Jesus
>is Messiah, they DO believe that believers in Jesus should be under Orthodox Jewish Rabbinical authority.
>
>So, just be aware and discerning that not all "roots of faith" is genuine "roots of faith" because Yeshua/Jesus is God
>manifested in the flesh, the New Testament is God's Divine Word, and Jesus said in John 14:6:
>
>"I AM the way, the truth and the life, for NO MAN comes unto the Father but by ME"
>
>Believers in Yeshua/Jesus as Messiah are NOT required to follow today's Rabbinical Orthodox Judaism.
>
>But, we do acknowledge that Christianity departed from the "roots of their faith" and that the Torah is the Tree of Life and the
>Sabbath and Biblical Festivals are ETERNAL and the origin of Christmas and Easter is pagan and we need to understand our ROLE as
>non-Jewish believers in Yeshua/Jesus as Messiah in the Kingdom of Heaven while embracing the Hebraic Roots of Christianity.
>
>So, let's be discerning when researching and discovering the Hebraic Roots of Christianity.
>
>
To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
From: jstrimm@swbell.net (James Trimm)
Subject: Re: Roots of Christianity
Cc: roots-of-faith@world.std.com, netvision@netvision.net.il,
jbernal@carroll.com, xlts@online.no
>
>For the "Mishpachah / family" on this list, Jose is talking about the "Neztarim Judism / Christianity" movement. There is a
>listserve called, "Roots of Faith". There Web Site is:
>
> http://www.netzarim.co.il/
>
PLEASE RETRACT THIS IS IT A TOTAL FALSEHOOD. There is NO connection between the group that runs the above website and the roots of faith group.
From Eddie:
**************
I am sorry that I wasn't more clear in the way that I stated what I was trying to share. It was this:
Jose stated that he was on the "roots of faith" listserve and they ...
>
>Shalom alecheim. Forgive me, but I thought I was on the Roots of Faith chat postings when I made the comment below. In that chat
>room, there are found the most cultish and eclectic group of people I have ever encountered. Most on that site do not hold the Brith
>Chadasha as scripture, others go further than that; they consider it heretical! I know, I have been continously berated for my belief in
>the veracity of the scriptural canon.
>
>
>
I then referred to the WebSite that espouses this docrine located at: http://www.netzarim.co.il/
Then, I further explained some of the doctrines and beliefs of this group. I was not indicating that the "roots of faith"
listserve was run by the people located at:
http://www.netzarim.co.il/
only that Jose was stating that on this listserve that the people on it were espousing this doctrine.
From James Trimm:
************************
The http://www.netzarim.co.il group are orthodox Rabbinacl Jews who use
only the book of Matthew and who submit there halacha and doctrine to an
orthodox beit din for its aproval.
From Eddie:
**************
These are also people in the organization who believe that Jesus is
Messiah but deny that He is God, that the NT is scripture and believe that
those who believe in Jesus as Messiah should follow Rabbinical Judaism.
This is a false belief system and is heresy.
From James Trimm:
************************
The roots-of-faith listserver website is at:
http://world.std.com/~caesar/roots.html
The roots of faith listserver is an unmoderated open forum for the disusion
of the Jewish origins of the Messianic faith. It includes theologiucal and
objective accademic discusions about the Nazarenes (Hebrew:Netzarim and
Ebionites (Hebrew:Evionim). As an unmoderated open discusion group all
opinions are presented and discussed.
James Trimm
PS; Carbon copies have been posted on the roots of faith listserver and to
the other website you mentioned.
**************************************************************************
From: Sara Sutherland <msuther@gte.net>
Reply-to: msuther@gte.net
Organization: Home
To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject: Re: Roots of Christianity
> >From Eddie:
> ***************
>
>For the "Mishpachah / family" on this list, Jose is talking about the "Neztarim Judism / Christianity" movement. There is a
>listserve called, "Roots of Faith". There Web Site is:
>
> http://www.netzarim.co.il/
>
>For your information, the scripture tell us that we are to be "discerning" and do you think that G-d would have a GENUINE
movement back to the Hebraic Roots of Christianity and there not also be a counterfeit by the enemy?
>
>Just so that you are aware of this movement and what they believe, they claim to be going back to the "roots" of the
>Christian faith forsaking "Roman / Greco Christianity" by embracing the Torah, keeping of the Sabbath and Festivals and claim to believe
>that Jesus is Messiah HOWEVER they also DO NOT believe that Yeshua/Jesus is God manifested in the flesh, they DO NOT accept that
>the New Testament is God's Word, they DO NOT accept that Jews need to accept Jesus as Messiah to be saved and thus do not "witness" to
>the Jews that Jesus is Messiah, they DO believe that believers in Jesus should be under Orthodox Jewish Rabbinical authority.
>
Eddie,
Also, from what I have gathered from them is they Believe that Gentiles need a certificate of conversion to Judiasm before they are
considered part of the community. Gentiles then are considered not Jews,but righteous gentiles.Labels aren't everything. Netzarim have
thier own translation of Matthew in Hebrew. Even without the testimony of the Br'it Chadashah, they are in error to the testimony
of the Tanakh. Is 56:5 would be one example of the Blessing denied."To them(refering to the foreigner(v3)) I will give in My house and within
My walls a memorial, and a name better than that of the sons and daughters; I will give them an everlassting name that will not be cut
off"(BTW rooters the rest of this Chapter is a nugget of gold) Just wanted to add my nickel(2cents + inflation)
HaShem Y'shua,
Sara
******************************************************************************
From: Dick Brown <Dick_Brown@dell.com>
To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject: Re: Roots of Christianity
Eddie,
for sure the ebionite position [if we can see it
clearly this far from the source] was/is heretical. I
have a question on this, however, that goes one layer
deeper than just the proclamations or dogma of a
particular sect.
Is it possible or likely that among the Jews [not
those believing upon Yeshua, but in general] that
there was and is much disagreement on the Nature of
Messiah? First, is Messiah a natural man, a non-natural
man, a 'spirit', an "age", etc. Secondly, that there
was/is much disagreement as to whether Messiah [whether
man, angel, or ..] was/is G-D, that is an essential part
of G-D Himself and inseperable from the other aspects of
Him? If this were a legitimate question [I think it
was], then it carried over into the centuries of
discussion as to the nature of Yeshua... "christology" if
you will. So, it may be less an issue of questioning the
stature of Yeshua [say in the case of the more orthodox
Nazarenes vs. the judaizing Ebionites], so much as
questioning the nature of Messiah.????
could you comment?
DB
From Eddie:
**************
There is a WIDE range of disagreement among religious Jews who DO NOT believe that Yeshua/Jesus is Messiah about who/what the
Messiah is.
The Reform Jews believe in NO PERSONAL Messiah. To them, there is just a time a GREAT PEACE on the world. So, to them, the
Messiah is a world condition.
To the Orthodox Jew, they believe in a personal Messiah but the teach that there are TWO Messiahs. A suffering
Messiah (Messiah ben Joseph) and a King Messiah (Messiah ben David). They teach that the suffering Messiah
will die in the War between Gog and Magog (Ezekiel 38,39) and will be resurrected by the King Messiah. Actually, this belief system lays
the foundation to follow after the Anti-Christ. In Revelation 13:3 it is written:
"And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death and his deadly wound was healed and all the world wondered after the beast"
What do you think that the possibility is that the Anti-Christ in Revelation 13:4 will receive his "deadly wound" in
Israel's ware with Gog and Magog ??? I think pretty great.
Also, the Rabbi's overed the years have ignored prior to 1st Century commentaries of OT scriptures which they THEN interpreted
to be about the Messiah including Isaiah 53. As a reference, you may look for the book, "The Messiah Conspiracy" by Philip N. Moore.
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