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From: heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 1997 12:41 AM To: Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup Subject: Re: Help in talking to a Roman Catholic From: rose To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com Subject: Re: Help in talking to a Roman Catholic Eddie, Where a number of Protestants have been deceived is: the woman who rides the beast in Revelation is called the "MOTHER of harlots." Do these Protestants really believe that their religion is not harlotry also? They worship the same G-d that Catholics do. What did Jesus say about taking the beam out of our own eye first? Generally speaking, Catholics are just as saved as Protestants are. They worship the same God. I have heard more harmful things come out of the mouths of Protestant ministers than I have from Catholic priests. Asking Mary, or any saint, to pray for them is the same to a Catholic as asking their next door neighbor to pray for them. This is done in innocence. God winks at things done in innocence. "Can the blind lead the blind?" I think not - Jesus said it well. The Protestant worship of G-d is as far from Scriptural teaching as the Catholic worship is - if not further. The Catholics repent of their sins on a regular basis. Do Protestants? If the Catholic Church is the MOTHER of harlots - where does that leave, its daughter - the Protestant Church? Do Protestants really believe that their great anti-Semite leader of the reformation, Luther, taught them the truth? Can an anti-Semite even be close to the truth? I don't think so. Protestants, don't kid yourself - we have ALL been deceived by Satan. Rose ************************************************************************ From: John Castle To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com Subject: Re: Help in talking to a Roman Catholic In a message dated 97-06-27 08:20:53 EDT, heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com writes: << Shalom Sandi, > > Your quest for the answer is in the Bible. In both the Old Testament and the New, it is written, "You shall have no other Gods". Generally > speaking, Idolitry is not accepted by God, Catholics worship not only statues, idols, beads, idols gallore and especially Jesus on a cross. We all > know where Yeshua/Jesus is. Ask the preist about this and then refer to your Bible. > > Boruch Hashem >> > Dear sir: This is incorrect. Catholic theology specifically teaches that their members are NOT to worship saints. In practice, yes, many do, especially in those cultures where Catholicism supplanted animistic and other idolatry religions. It is simplistic to say, "Read the Bible." The JWs read the Bible and look where it got THEM? I would also say, that evangelical Christians also read the Bible, and look at the level of antisemitism in so many "believing" churches. No, G-d gave teachers to the Kehila, as well as prophets, to guide us as we read the Bible. So the original request was quite correct that she could use their own writings to refute them, in concert with the Scriptures. And I would suggest going to Yahoo and searching under "Catholic." You'll find a gold mine there. Very respectfully, in the Messiah of Israel, John Castle ************************************************************************** To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com From: Paul Stringer Subject: Re: Help in talking to a Roman Catholic At 07:07 AM 6/26/97 +0000, you wrote: > >From: Sandi >To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com >Subject: Re: Help with Information > > >>From Sandi: >************** > >I work for an elderly lady who is a staunch Roman Catholic. As I have to stay with her on the weekends I have to take her to mass. As a >result, I thought I would at least learn what is going on; so I began dialog with the priest in an effort to learn what is that they >teach. For all the information I had was from Protestants and ex-Catholics, who had a rabid hatred for all Catholics. > >After studying their catechism for myself, I know that some of their beliefs do not always jive with Scriptures and a great deal is of >pagan origins. The question I have is there anyone who can point me to some good historical resources showing the progression of their >adoption of these beliefs and I would prefer to refute them with their own scholars. For example, their firm belief that Mary is the >'queen of heaven.' I am well aware from study of ancient fertility cults where it originally comes from and I am well aware what the >prophets wrote about Israel's worship of the 'queen of heaven.' But I need more documentation. For I believe that this lady I am >employed by salvation may be at stake. > >Thanks for any help, > >sandi > There is a different in the Protestants and Roman Catholics the church started with the Apostle after the death and resurrection of Jesus (Christ)and later there was a difference where the headquarters should be. Jerusalem or Roman. The administration of the church was in difference of opinion and there were two places that the christian church was put into being Jerusalem and Roman. the Jerusalem church did not have any thing to do with the Roman church after several years and that started the dispute between the church. and over the years many things happen and in roman the Roman Catholic Church took on a pope and he was the head of the church and what every he did was as if he was G-d. Different rules began to happen over the years and things got into the rules that was not scripturally correct because man made the rules. same way with the 613 laws of the Jewish people some was written by Moses and some came from other and during a period of time they became law. Mary the mother of Jesus was crown Holy by a group of people who saw miracles happen in a little village and presested that this was Mary (Mother of Jesus) who did them. Therefore due to the uneducated people at that time in the word of G-d this began to become an issue with the priest of the church to please the people the program that they have today came into being. Note: the Roman Catholic Church is reviewing several things that do not line up with the word of G-d and I feel over a few years these things may be out of the worship in the church. To get a great amount of history in the Roman Catholic Church You would have to study several writers and be careful as to the writers as you know a writer writes the way he wants to project his views. paul *********************************************************************** From: WayneRF Organization: Home To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com Subject: Re: Help in talking to a Roman Catholic heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com wrote: > > From: Sandi > To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com > Subject: Re: Help with Information > > >From Sandi: > ************** > > I work for an elderly lady who is a staunch Roman Catholic. As I have to stay with her on the weekends I have to take her to mass. > As a result, I thought I would at least learn what is going on; so I began dialog with the priest in an effort to learn what is that > they teach. For all the information I had was from Protestants and ex-Catholics, who had a rabid hatred for all Catholics. > > After studying their catechism for myself, I know that some of their beliefs do not always jive with Scriptures and a great deal is > of pagan origins. The question I have is there anyone who can point me to some good historical resources showing the progression of > their adoption of these beliefs and I would prefer to refute them with their own scholars. For example, their firm belief that Mary > is the 'queen of heaven.' I am well aware from study of ancient fertility cults where it originally comes from and I am well aware > what the prophets wrote about Israel's worship of the 'queen of heaven.' But I need more documentation. For I believe that this > lady I am employed by salvation may be at stake. > > Thanks for any help, > > sandi Sandi, try this video at this address, it's very good and witnesses in love to RC's. You yourself will learn much from it too. http://Chick.com/videos/cathlcmv.htm Wayne... *********************************************************************** From: Kelly To: Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup<heb_roots_chr@geocities.com> Subject: Re: Help in talking to a Roman Catholic B"H I don't know if this is the place - but I disagree with David's statement regarding Catholics "worshipping" statues, idols, beads etc. Catholics worship G-d (Triune G-d, Father, Son and Holy Spirit). They do not worship Mary or other saints or anything like that. Their use of "prayers" to saints or Mary, etc. are based on the idea that these ppl are friends - i.e. my Grandfather died 16 years ago, and somedays I might "talk" to him even though he is not living. This is the same idea of Catholics with saints etc. They don't worship the saints. As far as rosaries, statues etc.. they are sacramentals just like mezuzah, tallis, tefillin, candlesticks, menorahs, etc.. are to Jews. Kelly (Shoshie) ******************************************************************* From: Laura To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com Subject: Re: Help in talking to a Roman Catholic To the Group: Whoa! I had no idea that this group accepted the "trashing" of any religion. You are all mistaken if you believe the Catholic faith advocates the worship of statues, idols, beads, or anything other than the true Lord. There are many in the Church who have gone astray and choose to give Mary a position on a par with Jesus. But the OFFICIAL doctrine of the Church does NOT advocate the worship of Mary. Calling her Queen of Heaven does not put her on a par with God. It is permissible to ask her to intercede with her son for us, much as most of us will ask a friend to pray for us. But worship her? NOT!! As for the beads and the statues and the crucifix, they are not the focus, Jesus is. The atoning sacrifice of the Lord upon the cross is the center of the mass. We don't worship the crucifix itself--it is but wood or stone. We worship that one that is upon the cross--our Lord. Saying the rosary is optional and is NOT mandatory or even particularly encouraged. I attended adult catechism classes for two years before I was baptized a Catholic, and I was never ONCE told that I needed to ask Mary or any saint or angel to intercede before the Lord for me, or that I needed to pray the rosary. Instead the Church taught me to look to the promises of Christ and to pray to Him. And yes, I am born again--a born again Catholic Christian who has been washed in the blood of the Lamb. Shalom to all! Laura ********************************************************************** To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com From: Fred Laister Subject: Re: Help in talking to a Roman Catholic In reply to anyone who wishes to denigrate the Roman Catholic church please get some facts right. I am a practicing Catholic with a love for the Lord and His people in Israel, it gives me pleasure to learn of the roots of my Christian beliefs which everyone knows goes back to the land of Israel. Having said this please allow me to address a couple of points one being the worship of idols. There are now approximately one thousand million Roman Catholics in the world and surely no-one is suggesting that they are all so foolish as to believe that the statues in the churches are in some way to be worshipped rather than the Lord!! The statues are merely works of art which are aids to prayer and meditation, NOT venerated as THE Deity in any way, that kind of notion would be absurd to any Catholic. Also as to the corrupt behaviour of some of the church leaders, this is acknowledged by the church and not denied. There was one traitor among the twelve disciples so it shouldn't be any surprise that in the largest Christian church in the world there have been terrible leaders over the centuries including our day and age. If there is a perfect church please don't go there because it wouldn't be perfect for long. :) May I also point out that over the centuries there have been many and varied points of view regarding the interpretation of Holy Scriptures which has led to the fragmentation of the church where we now have thousands of different denominations not to mention the many varying sects. Surely from this it can be seen that there isn't one religious organization which has a monopoly on the absolute correct interpretation of the Bible. Perhaps the continual re-interpreting and hair splitting of scriptural text, by weighing each and every possible meaning and nuance of words written many centuries ago could also been seen as a form of bibleology!! A form of idolizing the Bible rather than living by the spirit of the Scriptures. Didn't Jesus say something like "Ye strain out a gnat but swallow a camel." In closing I believe that when each and everyone of us are standing at the pearly gates (allegorically speaking of course) whether or not we are admitted into the heavenly realm or perhaps banished to that OTHER PLACE it won't be because of our correct biblical interpretations or lack of but rather the condition of our hearts and mind and did we walk with charity in the spirit of the Lord rather than always attempting to take the speck out of other peoples eyes. Shalom and Shalom, Fred Laister. *********************************************************************** From: Brenda To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com Subject: Re: Help in talking to a Roman Catholic Here are another two books that may be of help in understanding Roman Catholicism: "Graven Bread: The papcy, and the Apparitions of Mary, and the Worship of the Bread of the Altar" and "Quite Contrary: A Biblical Reconsideration of the Apparitions of Mary." Both are written by Timothy F. Kauffman, and are well written, easy reads. I found the information given in them to be accurate and especially appreciated the way the author spoke, coming from his own first-hand experiences. The books are available through White Horse Publications, P.O. Box 2398, Huntsville, Al 35804-2398. There are also a great number of discernment ministries available on the internet with countless documents on the beliefs there in. Most chilling are the web pages devoted to the apparitions of Mary (and sometimes even Jesus). God Bless you! Brenda P. ************************************************************************** From Eddie: **************** Since we DO have Catholics on this newsgroup who LOVE their Messiah and the Jewish people and are also seeking to discover their Hebraic Roots just like Protestants, I felt that it was only fair to allow different views and perspectives to be expressed regarding the "help in talking to a Roman Catholic". Protestant churches aren't perfect either. We need to distinguish between the RELIGIOUS SYSTEM that WE have inherited and INDIVIDUAL members within this religious structure. I am not pagan because I attend a Catholic church or a Protestant church. I am saved if I accept Yeshua/Jesus as Messiah whether I have attended a Catholic church or a Protestant church. After this, if we love our G-d with all our heart, mind, soul and strength we will seek a deeper walk with G-d. This involves struggling with the desires of the flesh in our daily lives and the traditions that we have learned and inherited from our churches. For this reason, we need to ENCOURAGE each other in LOVE to seek and discover the truth of the scriptures. All discussions should be for the purpose of EDIFICATION of another member in the body of Messiah. We ALL have inherited and have followed man-made tradition in some form or fashion. If we have grown in our love and understanding of Messiah, it has been by the GRACE and MERCY of G-d who had COMPASSION upon us by loving us enough to teach us through His Ruach HaKodesh / Holy Spirit. Therefore, we should have the same respect for our brothers and sisters in the Lord. While we may desire to encourage other believers to walk in purer truths of the Word of G-d, we must always remember that when we speak TRUTH, we do it in LOVE (Ephesians 4:15). We can only grow if we are shown the errors of our church traditions. So, showing and exposing truth is important. But, if it is not done in LOVE with the heart to EDIFY another member of the body of Messiah, it is vanity. In Exodus 23:9 it is written: "Also you shall not oppress a stranger, for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt" Thank you members for sharing your thoughts on this subject. ************************************************************************
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