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From: heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com Sent: Thursday, July 17, 1997 11:50 PM To: Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup Subject: Re: "Gathering together unto Him" (II Thess 2:1-3) From: Kelli Morgan To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com Subject: Re: Rapture-Wedding-Sukkot Shalom Eddie. Thank you for the stimulating teaching and discussion. I have another question re: rapture. In 2 Thess 2:1-3...."Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one in any way deceive you for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,..." Does "our gathering together to Him" refer to the rapture of the bride? If so, Paul states that it will not occur until the "man of lawlessness is revealed" and goes further to say that he "takes his seat in the temple of G-d, displaying himself as G-d". At the midpoint of the seventieth week, (3 1/2 years), he takes his seat in the temple, according to Matthew and Daniel. Wouldn't this place the rapture at a later date than the beginning of the last week? I'm a little confused on this one....help :). From Eddie: *************** The phrase "gathering together unto Him" is a Jewish phrase that refers to those being of the same family being buried together and spiritually refers to the "resurrection of the dead". In Genesis 25:8 it is written: "Then ABRAHAM gave up the ghost and died in a good old age, an old man and full of years and was GATHERED TO HIS PEOPLE" In Genesis 35:29 it is written: "And ISAAC gave up the ghost, and died, and was GATHERED UNTO HIS PEOPLE, being old and full of day ..." In Genesis 49:33 it is written: "And when JACOB had made an end of commanding his sons, he gathered up his feet into the bed, and yielded up the ghost, and was GATHERED UNTO HIS PEOPLE" So, we can see the Patriarchs, "Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" when they died being described as being "GATHERED UNTO HIS PEOPLE". Therefore, the phrase in II Thess 2:1 "our gathering together unto him" refers to the resurrection of the dead and the coming Messianic Age as it was understood that "Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" would be leaders in the Messianic Age (Matthew 8:11). There are those who do not believe in a pre-trib rapture. IF there is a pre-trib rapture, ONLY the BRIDE (not the entire church) will go. However, this I WILL GUARENTEE you. The entire church (including the Bride) WILL see DIFFICULT times in the near future. Whether these difficult times are BEFORE the trib or part of the events of the trib, only time will tell but we WILL see VERY DIFFICULT days in the near future. Either way, I want to be prepared and ready. I want to be one of those "watchman" on the walls. It probably is not good to start a pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib debate on this newsgroup. The MAIN issue is that the BRIDE has MADE HERSELF READY. Let us all begin to prepare our hearts to meet our heavenly bridegroom !!! The time is NEAR !!!! Eddie Chumney *********************************************************************** My prayers are with you and your ministry. b'shem Yahshua. Kelli ---------- From: heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 1997 10:46 PM To: Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup Subject: Re: "Gathering together unto Him" (II Th From: David Walker Organization: http://members.tripod.com/~dwkeys/armory.html To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com Subject: Re: "Gathering together unto Him" (II Thess 2:1) heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com wrote: > > It probably is not good to start a pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib debate on this newsgroup. The MAIN issue is that the BRIDE > has MADE HERSELF READY. Let us all begin to prepare our hearts to meet our heavenly bridegroom !!! The time is NEAR !!!! > > Eddie Chumney Eddie, AMEN! While I hold a certain belief concerning the rapture, I accept that I may be wrong, being only human, and that others hold different beliefs. Regardless what we believe concerning the rapture, it should have ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on our faith in Yeshua. Too many people have become so fixated on a pre-trib rapture that, if it turns out they are wrong, they may very well lose their faith, if they are not focused solidly on Yeshua and His word. To anyone on this list that is counting on a pre-trib rapture: Ask yourself this question--"If I realize some day in the future that the tribulation has begun, and the rapture has not happened, will my faith be shaken?" If the answer is "yes," or even "maybe," you're placing too much emphasis on the rapture and not enough on Yeshua. Our "blessed hope" is the fact that Yeshua IS returning, not WHEN. Thanks so much for all the information you send out, Eddie. While I've only been a "rooter" for a short time, and I still have a long way to go, I've learned more from reading your posts, then I have all the other time spent trying to find information anywhere else around the net, and I thoroughly enjoy the Q&A. As soon as finances permit, I plan on ordering your books so I can really start getting more informed. Maranatha!! Dave From Eddie: ************** I am blessed that you are enjoying the newsgroup! It brings encouragement to the ministry and makes the time and effort put into the ministry worthwhile! ***********************************************************************
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