HHMI Newsgroup Archives
From: heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 1997 1:21 AM
To: Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup; jimban@snet.net
Subject: Are Christians "Under the Law" ???
From: Rev marshall martz
To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject: Torah
Eddie,
I am sending you the article on "Salvation by Grace", and the response
to it.
>
> From: james e bancroft <jimban@snet.net>
> Subject: answer to forwarded mail: sanctified by the law?
>
> It is my prayer that this letter opens your eyes to the truth
> taught in scripture. I make no pretense to say that I am all
> knowing, but on this topic, scripture is so clear in disagreeing with
> the content of the letter that you sent, that I must reply. In the file
that
> I sent you is a paper titled something like, "What is the believers
> rule of life". It covers also this topic.
>
> I will try now to answer the most obvious topics spoken of by
> Mr. Martz.
>
> "They immediately begin to think that because Yeshua (Jesus)
> shed His blood on the tree (cross) and we are saved by grace
> through faith that we are not 'under the law'. "
>
> This is clearly a statement that tells the reader that the LAW
> is still an issue for Christians. Yet in Romans 4 which he quotes
> also, Rom 4:2-5, it is faith that is what justifieth the ungodly, not
the
> law. The law is a system of works meant to lead to righteousness
> the person who practices it, to sanctify the person who obeys, is it
not?
> Or is that at least what many think it is? You and I know that many
> are taught that is exactly what the law is, a way to show obedience to
> God, through His law, a way to be sanctified, considered Holy by God.
> Mr Martz quotes Rom 3:31 and then makes the statement that we are
> supposed to keep the law. Is this what the verse says? The law being
> established means nothing more than it was proven valid, proven just,
> but it does not prove it is what Christians are to be under. Read on
> in Romans 4:6, where David "describeth the blessedness of the man unto
> whom God imputeth righteousness apart from works". That means clearly
> without the works of the law. Not through the 10 commandments, not
> through animal sacrifice, not through the keeping of Holy Days or
> fastings, but through faith.
>
> Romans 4:13 and on is also clear on justification and salvation
> by faith; "For the promise that he should be the heir of the world was
> not to Abraham or to his seed, THROUGH THE LAW, but THROUGH THE
> RIGHTEOUSNESS OF FAITH. FOR IF THEY WHO ARE OF THE LAW BE HEIRS, FAITH
> IS MADE VOID, AND THE PROMISE MADE OF NO EFFECT". Are we as Christians
> spiritual heirs of Christ as promised through Abraham? Yes, and it
> says so in Romans 8:17, "Joint heirs with Christ". Is this true of
> those of the law? NO! How can 1 verse say it so plainly that the law
> is not the way to God's promise, and then be ignored to support the
> law?
>
> How is a man justified before God? Is it through obedience?
> Adhering to the law? Read Romans 5:8 and on; "But God commendeth His
> love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
> Much more then, BEING NOW JUSTIFIED BY HIS BLOOD, we shall be saved
> from wrath through Him"
>
> Hebrews 10:1, "For the law, having a shadow of good things to
> come AND NOT the very image of those things, CAN NEVER with those
> sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make those who
> come to it perfect". The scriptures tell us clearly that the law
> cleansed no-one, it makes no-one perfect, it still leaves me a
> condemned sinner in need of another sacrifice. Praise God he said,
> v:6, " In burnt offerings and sacrificing for sin, thou hast had no
> pleasure", for that leads to v:9, "Then he said, Lo, I come to do thy
> will, O God. He taketh away the first, that He may establish the
> second".
>
> SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE CLEARER: THE LAW IS TAKEN AWAY BECAUSE CHRIST
> IS COME; SALVATION IS BY FAITH, JUSTIFICATION IS BY FAITH,
> SANCTIFICATION IS BY FAITH!
>
> How about Romans 6:14 and on; "For sin shall not have dominion
> over you; FOR YE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW BUT UNDER GRACE. WHAT THEN?
SHALL WE
> SIN BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE? GOD FORBID."
> Are we under the law? Is the law something the believer is supposed to
> adhere to? What does it mean to be under grace, then?
>
> Read Romans 7: "Know ye not, bretheren( for I speak to them which
> know the law), how that the law hath dominion over a man AS LONG AS HE
> LIVETH?"; v:4, " Wherefore, my bretheren, YE ARE BECOME DEAD TO THE
> LAW BY THE BODY OF CHRIST, THAT YE SHOULD BE MARRIED TO ANOTHER, EVEN
> TO HIM WHO IS RAISED FROM THE DEAD, THAT WE SHOULD BRING FORTH FRUIT
> UNTO GOD. For when we were in the flesh, the SINFUL IMPULSES WHICH
> WERE BY THE LAW, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto
> death.BUT NOW WE ARE DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, THAT BEING DEAD IN WHICH
> WE WERE HELD, that we should serve in newness of SPIRIT and NOT in the
> oldness of the LETTER".
>
>
> That message was very clear, the law brings death, for by it is
> the knowlege of sin. It cannot save or sanctify, and scripture says so.
> Sinful impulses came from the law, is this something to put a believer
> unto then? Read the rest of the chapter concerning the law, what does
> Paul say about it? The law exposed him to sin! It showed him his
> sinfulness, and it showed him no way out either!
>
> Go on in chapter 8 and read how the law of the Spirit made Paul,
> and all believers, alive unto God, and that the law of the flesh is
> only the law of sin and death. What do you want: Spirit filling? Or
> sin and death?
>
> Lets jump to Romans 10. v:2, "For they, (Israel), being ignorant
> of Gods righteousness, and going about to establish their own
> righteousness, (By the law, what else?), have not submitted themselves
> to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for
> righteousness to everyone that believeth".
>
> Romans 11:6, "And if by grace, is it no more of works; otherwise
> grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more
> grace; otherwise work is no more work" That isn't just salvation, it
> is our walk too.
> Jump to Galatians 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless
> I live, and the life which I now live, I live by the faith of the Son
of
> God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me". If I am crucified with
> Christ, then I am dead to law! Read verse 21, ""I do not make void the
> grace of God; for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is
> dead in vain".
>
> The keeping of the law is a reason to boast, isn't it? "I have
> kept all Gods commandments!" is what a fool would say, and I think you
know
> that, but many can say, "I have kept more commandments and have
> observed more of the law than that fellow over there!" Gal 3:2, "This
> only would I learn from you, Received ye the spirit by the works of
> the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? Having begun
> in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?"(the law). v:5,
> "He, therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh
> miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the
> hearing of faith?"
>
> Verse 10, "For as many as are under the works of the law, are
> under the curse, for it is written, Cursed is everyone that continueth
not
> in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do
> them".
>
> Do you keep all the law? You cannot have it both ways, either you
> are under the law or under grace: How was you morning sacrifice today?
> Where is the Levite who did it? Only a Levite can administer the
> sacrifice according to the law, and sacrifice is commanded, isn't it?
> Have you moved out from your house during your monthly visitation
> time? What did you offer the priest who does your sacrifices for the
> atonement for your monthly visitation that made you unclean? What
> animals did you sacrifice for the birth of your children?
>
> I must end with this: Gal 3:21 and on, "Is the law then against
> the promises of God? God forbid: for if there been a law given which
could
> have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
> But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by
> faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.BUT BEFORE
> FAITH CAME, WE WERE KEPT UNDER THE LAW, SHUT UP UNTO THE FAITH WHICH
> SHOULD AFTERWARDS BE REVEALED. WHEREFORE, THE LAW WAS OUR SCHOOLMASTER
> TO BRING US UNTO CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH. BUT
> AFTER FAITH IS COME, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A SCHOOLMASTER."
>
> Gal 5:3-4, "For I testify again to every man that is circumcised,
> THAT HE IS A DEBTOR TO DO THE WHOLE LAW. CHRIST IS BECOME OF NO EFFECT
> UNTO YOU, WHOSOEVER OF YOU ARE JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW; YE ARE FALLEN
> FROM GRACE"
>
> Are you fallen from grace?
>
>
TORAH - THE HEBREW ROOTS OF OUR FAITH.
ARE WE SAVED BY THE LAW OR BY GRACE?
One man wrote, I am having trouble understanding the Hebraic
perspective concerning the keeping of the Law. Some Messianic
information, and Michael Silvers Etz Chayim teach that we are to practice
or do the law as the Torah provides. How can we do this?
Sacrifice happened for all sins when our Lord died. Redemption occurred
when He rose from the grave. The temple shroud was rent from top
(God's place) to bottom (where men dwell) thus allowing those in the temple
to see the Holy of Holies.
Standard Christianity highlights only the Ten Commandments and the
commandments governing tithing. Do we follow only the old laws that we
agree with, or do we simply follow what Yeshua said to do;
1) Love God with all our heart.
2) Love your neighbor as yourself, and
3) Go and tell the Good News (Gospel) to everyone.
This is very complex and I require a proper direction as I study and
reformulate my practice of religion as He leads me. My perspective of
the Torah is the same as most of Christianity. I have love for ALL of
God's people of which the Jews are the first and the unsaved are yet to
come. My path is becoming increasingly Messianic in understanding
and practice.
ANSWER -
It is the truth that Christians have been taught about the Torah, but
most of Chrisitanity has been taught the wrong perspective.
When you mention Torah to most Christians and speak regarding the
obligations that God desires for us to have toward it, almost 99% of the
time Christians will try to tell you that you are not saved by keeping
the Torah. This is TRUE! Because salvation is usually always preached
as being not based upon the Torah, when Christians hear the word TORAH,
they immediately put on their religious salvation hats. They
immediately begin to think that because Yeshua (Jesus) shed his blood on
the tree (cross) and we are saved by grace through faith that we are
"not under the Law".
Salvation by faith according to the grace of God is NOT a New Testament
doctrine asChristianity makes it seem to be.
In Habakkuh 2:4 it is written: ".....the just shall live by faith".
In Galations 3:11 it is written: "But no man is justified by the
Law in the sight of God, it is evident: FOR THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY
FAITH".
So what changed? Nothing! In the OT, the "just shall live by faith".
In the NT, the "just shall live by faith".
How was Abraham saved? Galatians 3:6-8
"Even as Abraham Believed God, and it was accounted to him for
righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of FAITH, the same
are the children of Abraham. And the Scripture foreseeing that God
would justify the heathen through FAITH, preached before the gospel unto
Abraham.....".
Even though Abraham was saved by faith, did he still keep the Torah?
The answer is yes! In Genesis 26:5:
"Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and KEPT my commandments, my
statutes, and my TORAH". (Notice that in Genesis 26:5, God referred to
the Torah as HIS Torah.
So, did God change? Is salvation by grace through faith a NT truth or
was it true in the OT also? God never changes (Malachi 3:6). Are the
people mentioned in the "Hall of Fame of faith" in Hebrews 11, OT or
NT people?
In Hebrews 11, how was Abel, Enoch, Noah, Jephthah, David,
Samuel and all the prophets "justified and saved before God"?
Hebrews 11, tells us that it was by faith because Abraham, Isaac, Jacob,
Moses etc. were justified in God's eyes by faith, did they also have to
keep the Torah? The answer is yes! Did keeping the Torah save
them? No! How were they saved? They were saved by faith (Hebrews 11). So is
salvation by faith a NT doctrine or did it exist as a OT truth
also? Since God never changes it was true in the OT as well as true in the
NT. Therefore, we have to change our perception that salvation by grace
through faith is NOT a NT truth but this has been the way of God from
the beginning.
Did salvation by grace through faith keep God's servants
in the OT from keeping the Torah? No! So why did they keep it if
they were saved by faith? Are we still required to keep the Torah?
Romans 3:28:
"Therefore, we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the
deeds of the law"
Romans 3:31:
"Do we make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish
the law"
What does this say?
1) Salvation by grace through faith without the deeds of the law.
2) We keep the law.
How did the people in the "Hall of Fame of faith" (Hebrews 11) live?
1) They were saved by grace through faith without the deeds of the law.
2) They kept the law
David was a man after God's own heart (Acts 13:22). In Psalm 119:97,
David writes: "O how I love thy TORAH! it is my meditation all the
day"
Therefore, problem #1 in Christians understanding regarding the law is
believing a NT teaching that they fail to realize is an OT truth also
(salvation by grace through faith).
Problem #2: Believing the dispensational teaching that the OT is the
"age of law" and the NT is the "age of grace".
The OT was an "age of grace".
Noah found grace in the eyes God.
In Genesis 6:8: "But Noah found GRACE in the eyes of the Lord."
Moses found GRACE in the sight of God. In Exodus 33:12-13, 16-17:
"And Moses said unto the Lord, See thou sayest unto me, Bring up this
people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet
YOU (God) has said, I know thee by name, and you have also found GRACE
in my sight, show me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find
GRACE in thy sight and consider that this nation is thy people. . .
For wherein shall it be known here that I as thy people have found GRACE in
thy sight? . and the Lord said unto Moses, I will do this thing also
that thou hast spoken: for thou has found GRACE in my sight, and I know
thee by name."
So, Noah found GRACE in God's eyes and so did Moses. How did Moses
plead with God in Exodus 33:12-13, 16-17? Moses pleaded with God
according to the GRACE of God. How did God pardon the sins of the
people? It was by His GRACE. Did the children of Israel DESERVE to be
forgiven of their sins when they made the golden calf? (Exodus
32:1-6) NO! Did God forgive them? YES! How? By His GRACE! So, how did God
forgive the people for making the golden calf? It was by His GRACE and
MERCY!
Exodus 34:6-7
"And the Lord passed by before him and proclaimed, the Lord, the Lord
God, MERCIFUL and GRACIOUS . . . keeping MERCY for thousands and
forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin . . ."
So is forgiveness of our sin by GRACE in the NT by the shed blood of
Yeshua (Jesus) a NT truth exclusive of the OT? NO! God forgave the
children of Israel when they made the golden calf by His GRACE and
MERCY!
Did the children of Israel DESERVE to be delivered from the bondage of
Egypt under Pharaoh? NO! How did God save them? He saved them by His
GRACE and MERCY!
So, another problem with Christianity is putting the perception in the
Christian's mind that the OT is the "age of law" and the NT is the
"age of grace". This is the doctrine of dispensationalism and it is a
fallacy according the Bible because God saved His people in the OT and
forgave their sins by His GRACE.
There are two primary words that communicate Grace. They are the
Strong's word (2580) which is the Hebrew word, "Chayn". The other
Hebrew word is the Strong's word (2617) which is the Hebrew word,
"Chasayd". "Chaysayd" is translated most of the time in the Bible as
mercy or lovingkindness. MERCY is GRACE!
When God betrothed Himself to Israel at Mount Sinai, He did so in MERCY.
In Hosea 2:19: "And I will BETROTH thee unto me FOREVER, yea, I will
BETROTH thee to me in . . . LOVINGKINDNESS and MERCIES . . ."
Notice that when God made the covenant, He made a covenant of
LOVINGKINDNESS and MERCY FOREVER.
Many times in the Bible, God speaks of His MERCY and TRUTH.
What is truth? The answer is in: Psalm 119:142: "Thy righteousness is
an everlasting righteousness and thy TORAH IS TRUTH"
Malachi 2:6: "The LAW of TRUTH was in his mouth . . ."
Psalm 25:10: "All the paths of the Lord are MERCY and TRUTH unto
such as keep his covenant and his testimonies"
Psalm 61:7: "He shall abide before God forever: MERCY and
TRUTH which may preserve him"
Psalm 85:10: "MERCY and TRUTH are met together . . ."
Psalm 86:15: "But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and
GRACIOUS, longsuffering, and plenteous in MERCY and TRUTH"
Notice in all of these passages that MERCY (GRACE) is mentioned FIRST
then TRUTH. We are saved by GRACE FIRST. AFTER we are saved, God wants
us to live our lives according to TRUTH. The TRUTH is the TORAH and
keeping His commandments.
Another Christian misunderstanding is seeing the "Old Covenant" as
"LAW" and the New Covenant as "GRACE". The Bible is clear that
the NT is the TORAH written upon your heart.
In Jeremiah 31:33: "But this shall be
the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those
days, saith the Lord, I will put my TORAH in their inward parts and
write it in their HEARTS . . ."
Can you be a NT Christian and the Torah is written on your heart and you
not keep it? This doesn't make sense.
God gave us the indwelling Ruach HaKodesh / Holy Spirit so that we can
have the power to keep His commandments. In Ezekiel 36:26-27: "A new
HEART also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and
I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you
a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to
walk in my statutes . . . and Do them"
So, if you are a NT Christian, then the TORAH will be written upon your
HEART and you will KEEP the commandments of God.
Another Christian fallacy is that the Torah was FIRST given by God to
Moses at Mount Sinai. However, in Genesis 26:5, it tells us that
Avraham/Abraham kept the TORAH of God. In Proverbs 3:1,18, it tells us
the TORAH is the TREE OF LIFE. The tree of life was planted in the
Garden of Eden. In Revelation 22:14, Jesus told them that KEEP His
commandments will have right to the tree of life.
In Isaiah 2:2-3 during the Messianic Age, the TORAH will be taught to
ALL nations by Jesus from Jerusalem.
Another Christian fallacy is that the TORAH means "the law". In fact,
TORAH does NOT mean "law" but means "INSTRUCTION". The word,
TORAH, is the Strong's word (8451) and comes from the Hebrew
word YARAH, which is the Strong's word (3384) which means, "to lay a
foundation, to teach, to point out as aiming the finger".
The word TORAH means INSTRUCTION concerning HOW I should live
AFTER I am saved. The word in the Bible that means SALVATION is
YESHUA/Jesus (Matthew 1:21).
Go to a Christian and say the word SABBATH, they will think, "we are
not under the law". Say the word, SUNDAY and they will think
"worshipping God at church". But the day that God gave to worship
Him was the SABBATH.
Go to a Christian and say the word, FESTIVALS, they will think, "we are
not under the law". Say the word, CHRISTMAS, and they will think,
"the birthday of Jesus". Did you ever hear a Christian speak to
another Christian, why do you celebrate Christmas? Don't you know
that we are not under the law? You don't have to put up a Christmas
tree and buy gifts to be saved! Don't you know that we are saved by
GRACE? You don't have to do all that Christmas stuff to be saved! And
why do you go to church on Sunday? Don't you know that we are saved by
GRACE then why do you go to church on Sunday? So, if we are saved
by GRACE then why do you go to church on Sunday when it doesn't save
you, but, yet we use the same logic when talking about the Sabbath and
Biblical Festivals.
Sunday won't be the day of worship during the Messianic Age. Christmas
and Easter won't be celebrated during the Messianic Age. But the
Sabbath and Festivals will be. As we have pointed out in the past, if the
Sabbath and festivals are going to be celebrated during the Messianic Age and
then for all eternity, aren't they valid for Christians to keep today?
We cannot fulfill loving God and loving our neighbor without keeping the
Torah. Loving God with all our heart is a commandment of the TORAH
(Deuteronomy 6:4-5). Yeshua/Jesus reiterated this truth in Mark
12:29-30. Loving our neighbor as ourself is a TORAH commandment
(Leviticus 18:19). Yeshua/Jesus reiterated this truth in Mark 12:31.
Someone once asked Hillel who was a first Century Torah leader who lived
when Yeshua/Jesus was a little boy, how do you summarize the keeping of
the commandments in the Torah? He replied, "Love God with all your
heart, mind, soul and strength and love your neighbor as yourself.
Everything else is commentary. Go and Study"
So Yeshua/Jesus didn't give a new doctrine and understanding regarding
the Torah when He said, "Love God and love your neighbor?. Yet,
Christians have interpreted that Yeshua/Jesus was saying that if we love
then we don't have to keep the Torah. Yet, Yeshua/Jesus said, "If
you love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15).
The purpose of this is to give people a better perspective and
understanding of Torah.
This is a summary of a letter written by Edward L. Chumney.
Submitted by Rev Marshall Martz
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