From: 	 heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com
Sent: 	 Tuesday, August 19, 1997 1:10 AM
To: 	 Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup
Subject: Are Christians "Under the Law" ?? - Part



heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com wrote:
> 
> From:		Rev marshall martz
> To:		heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
> Subject:	Torah
> 
> Eddie,
> 
> I am sending you the article on "Salvation by Grace", and the
> response to it.
> 
> >
> > From: james e bancroft <jimban@snet.net>
> > Subject: answer to forwarded mail: sanctified by the law?
> >
> >    It is my prayer that this letter opens your eyes to the truth
> >    taught in scripture. I make no pretense to say that I am all
> >    knowing, but on this topic, scripture is so clear in
> >    disagreeing with the content of the letter that you sent, that
> >    I must reply. In the file that I sent you is a paper titled
> >    something like, "What is the believers rule of life". It covers
> >    also this topic.
> >
> >      I will try now to answer the most obvious topics spoken of by
> >      Mr. Martz.
> >
> >      "They immediately begin to think that because Yeshua (Jesus)
> >       shed His blood on the tree (cross) and we are saved by grace
> >       through faith that we are not 'under the law'. "
> >
> >       This is clearly a statement that tells the reader that the
> >       LAW
> >        is still an issue for Christians. Yet in Romans 4 which he
> >        quotes
> >       also, Rom 4:2-5, it is faith that is what justifieth the
> >       ungodly, not the law. The law is a system of works meant to
> >       lead to righteousness the person who practices it, to
> >       sanctify the person who obeys, is it not? Or is that at
> >       least what many think it is? You and I know that many are
> >       taught that is exactly what the law is, a way to show
> >       obedience to God, through His law, a way to be sanctified,
> >       considered Holy by God. Mr Martz quotes Rom 3:31 and then
> >       makes the statement that we are supposed to keep the law. Is
> >       this what the verse says? The law being established means
> >       nothing more than it was proven valid, proven just, but it
> >       does not prove it is what Christians are to be under. Read
> >       on in Romans 4:6, where David "describeth the blessedness of
> >       the man unto whom God imputeth righteousness apart from
> >       works". That means clearly without the works of the law. Not
> >       through the 10 commandments, not through animal sacrifice,
> >       not through the keeping of Holy Days or fastings, but
> >       through faith.
> >
> >     Romans 4:13 and on is also clear on justification and
> >     salvation by faith; "For the promise that he should be the
> >     heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed, THROUGH
> >     THE LAW, but THROUGH THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF FAITH. FOR IF THEY
> >     WHO ARE OF THE LAW BE HEIRS, FAITH IS MADE VOID, AND THE
> >     PROMISE MADE OF NO EFFECT". Are we as Christians spiritual
> >     heirs of Christ as promised through Abraham? Yes, and it says
> >     so in Romans 8:17, "Joint heirs with Christ". Is this true of
> >      those of the law? NO! How can 1 verse say it so plainly that
> >      the law is not the way to God's promise, and then be ignored
> >      to support the law?
> >
> >      How is a man justified before God? Is it through obedience?
> >      Adhering to the law? Read Romans 5:8 and on; "But God
> >      commendeth His love toward us, in that while we were yet
> >      sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, BEING NOW
> >      JUSTIFIED BY HIS BLOOD, we shall be saved from wrath through
> >      Him"
> >
> >     Hebrews 10:1, "For the law, having a shadow of good things to
> >     come AND NOT the very image of those things, CAN NEVER with
> >     those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually
> >     make those who come to it perfect". The scriptures tell us
> >     clearly that the law cleansed no-one, it makes no-one perfect,
> >     it still leaves me a condemned sinner in need of another
> >     sacrifice. Praise God he said, v:6, " In burnt offerings and
> >     sacrificing for sin, thou hast had no pleasure", for that
> >     leads to v:9, "Then he said, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God.
> >     He taketh away  the first, that He may establish the second".
> >
> >     SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE CLEARER: THE LAW IS TAKEN AWAY BECAUSE
> >     CHRIST IS COME; SALVATION IS BY FAITH, JUSTIFICATION IS BY
> >     FAITH, SANCTIFICATION IS BY FAITH!
> >
> >     How about Romans 6:14 and on; "For sin shall not have dominion
> >     over you; FOR YE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW BUT UNDER GRACE. WHAT
> >     THEN? SHALL WE SIN BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER
> >     GRACE? GOD FORBID." Are we under the law? Is the law something
> >     the believer is supposed to adhere to? What does it mean to be
> >     under grace, then?
> >
> >     Read Romans 7: "Know ye not, bretheren( for I speak to them
> >     which know the law), how that the law hath dominion over a man
> >     AS LONG AS HE LIVETH?"; v:4, " Wherefore, my bretheren, YE ARE
> >     BECOME DEAD TO THE LAW BY THE BODY OF CHRIST, THAT YE SHOULD
> >     BE MARRIED TO ANOTHER, EVEN TO HIM WHO IS RAISED FROM THE
> >     DEAD, THAT WE SHOULD BRING FORTH FRUIT UNTO GOD. For when we
> >     were in the flesh, the SINFUL IMPULSES WHICH WERE BY THE LAW,
> >     did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.BUT
> >     NOW WE ARE DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, THAT BEING DEAD IN WHICH WE
> >     WERE HELD, that we should serve in newness of SPIRIT and NOT
> >     in the
> >      oldness of the LETTER".
> >
> >
> >    That message was very clear, the law brings death, for by it is
> >     the knowlege of sin. It cannot save or sanctify, and scripture
> >     says so. Sinful impulses came from the law, is this something
> >     to put a believer unto then? Read the rest of the chapter
> >     concerning the law, what does Paul say about it? The law
> >     exposed him to sin! It showed him his sinfulness, and it
> >     showed him no way out either!
> >
> >     Go on in chapter 8 and read how the law of the Spirit made
> >     Paul, and all believers, alive unto God, and that the law of
> >     the flesh is only the law of sin and death. What do you want:
> >     Spirit filling? Or sin and death?
> >
> >     Lets jump to Romans 10. v:2, "For they, (Israel), being
> >     ignorant of Gods righteousness, and going about to establish
> >     their own righteousness, (By the law, what else?), have not
> >     submitted themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ
> >     is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that
> >     believeth".
> >
> >     Romans 11:6, "And if by grace, is it no more of works;
> >     otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then
> >     is it no more grace; otherwise work is no more work" That
> >     isn't just salvation, it is our walk too. Jump to Galatians
> >     2:20, "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless
> >      I live, and the life which I now live, I live by the faith of
> >      the Son of
> >     God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me". If I am crucified
> >     with Christ, then I am dead to law! Read verse 21, ""I do not
> >     make void the grace of God; for if righteousness come by the
> >     law, then Christ is dead in vain".
> >
> >     The keeping of the law is a reason to boast, isn't it? "I have
> >     kept all Gods commandments!" is what a fool would say, and I
> >     think you know that, but many can say, "I have kept more
> >     commandments and have observed more of the law than that
> >     fellow over there!" Gal 3:2, "This only would I learn from
> >     you, Received ye the spirit by the works of the law, or by the
> >     hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? Having begun in the
> >     Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?"(the law). v:5,
> >     "He, therefore that ministereth  to you the Spirit, and
> >     worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the
> >     law, or by the hearing of faith?"
> >
> >     Verse 10, "For as many as are under the works of the law, are
> >     under the curse, for it is written, Cursed is everyone that
> >     continueth not in all things which  are written in the book of
> >     the law, to do them".
> >
> >     Do you keep all the law? You cannot have it both ways, either
> >     you are under the law or under grace: How was you morning
> >     sacrifice today? Where is the Levite who did it? Only a Levite
> >     can administer the sacrifice according to the law, and
> >     sacrifice is commanded, isn't it? Have you moved out from your
> >     house during your monthly visitation time? What did you offer
> >     the priest who does your sacrifices for the
> >    atonement for your monthly visitation that made you unclean?
> >    What animals did you sacrifice for the birth of your children?
> >
> >     I must end with this: Gal 3:21 and on, "Is the law then
> >     against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there been a
> >     law given which could have  given life, verily righteousness
> >     should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded
> >     all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might
> >     be given to them that believe.BUT BEFORE FAITH CAME, WE WERE
> >     KEPT UNDER THE LAW, SHUT UP UNTO THE FAITH WHICH SHOULD
> >     AFTERWARDS BE REVEALED. WHEREFORE, THE LAW WAS OUR
> >     SCHOOLMASTER TO BRING US UNTO CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE
> >     JUSTIFIED BY FAITH. BUT AFTER FAITH IS COME, WE ARE NO LONGER
> >     UNDER A SCHOOLMASTER."
> >
> >     Gal 5:3-4, "For I testify again to every man that is
> >     circumcised, THAT HE IS A DEBTOR TO DO THE WHOLE LAW. CHRIST
> >     IS BECOME OF NO EFFECT UNTO YOU, WHOSOEVER OF YOU ARE
> >     JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW; YE ARE FALLEN FROM GRACE"
> >
> >     Are you fallen from grace?
> >
> >
> 
>                   TORAH - THE HEBREW ROOTS OF OUR FAITH.
>                     ARE WE SAVED BY THE LAW OR BY GRACE?
> 
> One man wrote, I am having trouble understanding the Hebraic
> perspective concerning the keeping of the Law.  Some Messianic
> information, and Michael Silvers Etz Chayim teach that we are to
> practice or do the law as the Torah provides.  How can we do this?
> 
> Sacrifice happened for all sins when our Lord died.  Redemption
> occurred when He rose from the grave.  The temple shroud was rent
> from top (God's place) to bottom (where men dwell) thus allowing
> those in the temple to see the Holy of Holies.
> 
> Standard Christianity highlights only the Ten Commandments and the
> commandments governing tithing.  Do we follow only the old laws that
> we agree with, or do we simply follow what Yeshua said to do;
> 
> 1) Love God with all our heart.
> 2) Love your neighbor as yourself, and
> 3) Go and tell the Good News (Gospel) to everyone.
> 
> This is very complex and I require a proper direction as I study and
> reformulate my practice of religion as He leads me.  My perspective
> of the Torah is the same as most of Christianity.  I have love for
> ALL of God's people of which the Jews are the first and the unsaved
> are yet to come.  My path is becoming increasingly Messianic in
> understanding and practice.
> 
> ANSWER -
> 
> It is the truth that Christians have been taught about the Torah,
> but most of Chrisitanity has been taught the wrong perspective.
> 
> When you mention Torah to most Christians and speak regarding the
> obligations that God desires for us to have toward it, almost 99% of
> the time Christians will try to tell you that you are not saved by
> keeping the Torah.  This is TRUE!  Because salvation is usually
> always preached as being not based upon the Torah, when Christians
> hear the word TORAH, they immediately put on their religious
> salvation hats.  They immediately begin to think that because Yeshua
> (Jesus) shed his blood on the tree (cross)  and we are saved by
> grace through faith that we are "not under the Law".
> 
> Salvation by faith according to the grace of God is NOT a New
> Testament doctrine asChristianity makes it seem to be.
> 
>      In Habakkuh 2:4 it is written:  ".....the just shall live by
>      faith".
> 
>      In Galations 3:11 it is written: "But no man is justified by
>      the
> Law in the sight of God, it is evident: FOR THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY
> FAITH".
> 
> So what changed? Nothing!  In the OT, the "just shall live by
> faith".
> 
> In the NT, the "just shall live by faith".
> 
> How was Abraham saved?  Galatians 3:6-8
> "Even as Abraham Believed God, and it was accounted to him for
> righteousness.  Know ye therefore that they which are of FAITH, the
> same are the children of Abraham.  And the Scripture foreseeing that
> God would justify the heathen through FAITH, preached before the
> gospel unto Abraham.....".
> 
> Even though Abraham was saved by faith, did he still keep the Torah?
> 
> The answer is yes!  In Genesis 26:5:
> "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and KEPT my commandments, my
> statutes, and my TORAH".  (Notice that in Genesis 26:5, God referred
> to the Torah as HIS Torah.
> 
> So, did God change?  Is salvation by grace through faith a NT truth
> or was it true in the OT also?  God never changes (Malachi 3:6). 
> Are the people mentioned in the "Hall of Fame of faith" in Hebrews
> 11, OT or NT people?
> 
> In Hebrews 11, how was Abel, Enoch, Noah, Jephthah, David,
> Samuel and all the prophets "justified and saved before God"?
> Hebrews 11, tells us that it was by faith because Abraham, Isaac,
> Jacob, Moses etc. were justified in God's eyes by faith, did they
> also have to keep the Torah?  The answer is yes!  Did keeping the
> Torah save them? No!  How were they saved?  They were saved by faith
> (Hebrews 11).  So is salvation by faith a NT doctrine or did it
> exist as a OT truth also? Since God never changes it was true in the
> OT as well as true in the NT.  Therefore, we have to change our
> perception that salvation by grace through faith is NOT a NT truth
> but this has been the way of God from the beginning.
> 
> Did salvation by grace through faith keep God's servants
> in the OT from keeping the Torah?  No!  So why did they keep it if
> they were saved by faith?  Are we still required to keep the Torah?
> 
> Romans 3:28:
> "Therefore, we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the
> deeds of the law"
> 
> Romans 3:31:
> "Do we make void the law through faith?  God forbid: yea, we
> establish the law"
> 
> What does this say?
> 1) Salvation by grace through faith without the deeds of the law. 2)
> We keep the law.
> 
> How did the people in the "Hall of Fame of faith" (Hebrews 11) live?
> 
> 1) They were saved by grace through faith without the deeds of the
> law. 2) They kept the law
> 
> David was a man after God's own heart (Acts 13:22).  In Psalm
> 119:97, David writes:  "O how I love thy TORAH!  it is my meditation
> all the day"
> 
> Therefore, problem #1 in Christians understanding regarding the law
> is believing a NT teaching that they fail to realize is an OT truth
> also (salvation by grace through faith).
> 
> Problem #2:  Believing the dispensational teaching that the OT is
> the "age of law" and the NT is the "age of grace".
> 
> The OT was an "age of grace".
> 
> Noah found grace in the eyes God.
> 
> In Genesis 6:8:  "But Noah found GRACE in the eyes of the Lord."
> 
> Moses found GRACE in the sight of God.  In Exodus 33:12-13, 16-17:
> 
>  "And Moses said unto the Lord, See thou sayest unto me, Bring up
>  this
> people:  and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. 
> Yet YOU (God) has said, I know thee by name, and you have also found
> GRACE in my sight, show me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I
> may find GRACE in thy sight and consider that this nation is thy
> people. . . For wherein shall it be known here that I as thy people
> have found GRACE in thy sight? . and the Lord said unto Moses, I
> will do this thing also that thou hast spoken:  for thou has found
> GRACE in my sight, and I know thee by name."
> 
> So, Noah found GRACE in God's eyes and so did Moses.  How did Moses
> plead with God in Exodus 33:12-13, 16-17?  Moses pleaded with God
> according to the GRACE of God.  How did God pardon the sins of the
> people?  It was by His GRACE.  Did the children of Israel DESERVE to
> be forgiven of their sins when they made the golden calf?  (Exodus
> 32:1-6) NO!  Did God forgive them?  YES!  How?  By His GRACE!  So,
> how did God forgive the people for making the golden calf?  It was
> by His GRACE and MERCY!
> 
> Exodus 34:6-7
> "And the Lord passed by before him and proclaimed, the Lord, the
> Lord God, MERCIFUL and GRACIOUS . . . keeping MERCY for thousands
> and forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin . . ."
> 
> So is forgiveness of our sin by GRACE in the NT by the shed blood of
> Yeshua (Jesus) a NT truth exclusive of the OT?  NO!  God forgave the
> children of Israel when they made the golden calf by His GRACE and
> MERCY!
> 
> Did the children of Israel DESERVE to be delivered from the bondage
> of Egypt under Pharaoh?  NO!  How did God save them?  He saved them
> by His GRACE and MERCY!
> 
> So, another problem with Christianity is putting the perception in
> the Christian's mind that the OT is the "age of law" and the NT is
> the "age of grace".  This is the doctrine of dispensationalism and
> it is a fallacy according the Bible because God saved His people in
> the OT and forgave their sins by His GRACE.
> 
> There are two primary words that communicate Grace.  They are the
> Strong's word (2580) which is the Hebrew word, "Chayn".  The other
> Hebrew word is the Strong's word (2617) which is the Hebrew word,
> "Chasayd".  "Chaysayd" is translated most of the time in the Bible
> as mercy or lovingkindness.  MERCY is GRACE!
> 
> When God betrothed Himself to Israel at Mount Sinai, He did so in
> MERCY.
> 
> In Hosea 2:19:  "And I will BETROTH thee unto me FOREVER, yea, I
> will BETROTH thee  to me in . . . LOVINGKINDNESS and MERCIES . . ."
> 
> Notice that when God made the covenant, He made a covenant of
> LOVINGKINDNESS and MERCY FOREVER.
> 
> Many times in the Bible, God speaks of His MERCY and TRUTH.
> 
> What is truth?  The answer is in: Psalm 119:142:  "Thy righteousness
> is an everlasting righteousness and thy TORAH IS TRUTH"
> 
> Malachi 2:6:  "The LAW of TRUTH was in his mouth . . ."
> 
> Psalm 25:10:  "All the paths of the Lord are MERCY and TRUTH unto
> such as keep his covenant and his testimonies"
> 
> Psalm 61:7:  "He shall abide before God forever:  MERCY and
> TRUTH which may preserve him"
> 
> Psalm 85:10:  "MERCY and TRUTH are met together . . ."
> 
> Psalm 86:15:  "But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and
> GRACIOUS, longsuffering, and plenteous in MERCY and TRUTH"
> 
> Notice in all of these passages that MERCY (GRACE) is mentioned
> FIRST then TRUTH.  We are saved by GRACE FIRST.  AFTER we are saved,
> God wants us to live our lives according to TRUTH.  The TRUTH is the
> TORAH and keeping His commandments.
> 
> Another Christian misunderstanding is seeing the "Old Covenant" as
> "LAW" and the New Covenant as "GRACE".  The Bible is clear that the
> NT is the TORAH written upon your heart.
> 
> In Jeremiah 31:33:   "But this shall be
> the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;  After those
> days, saith the Lord, I will put my TORAH in their inward parts  and
> write it in their HEARTS . . ."
> 
> Can you be a NT Christian and the Torah is written on your heart and
> you not keep it? This doesn't make sense.
> 
> God gave us the indwelling Ruach HaKodesh / Holy Spirit so that we
> can have the power to keep His commandments.  In Ezekiel 36:26-27: 
> "A new HEART also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put
> within you:  and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh,
> and I will give you a heart of flesh.  And I will put my spirit
> within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes . . . and Do them"
> 
> So, if you are a NT Christian, then the TORAH will be written upon
> your HEART and you will KEEP the commandments of God.
> 
> Another Christian fallacy is that the Torah was FIRST  given by God
> to Moses at Mount Sinai.  However, in Genesis 26:5, it tells us that
> Avraham/Abraham kept the TORAH of God.  In Proverbs 3:1,18, it tells
> us the TORAH is the TREE OF LIFE.  The tree of life was planted in
> the Garden of Eden.  In Revelation 22:14, Jesus told them that KEEP
> His commandments will have right to the tree of life.
> 
> In Isaiah 2:2-3 during the Messianic Age, the TORAH will be taught
> to ALL nations by Jesus from Jerusalem.
> 
> Another Christian fallacy is that the TORAH means "the law".  In
> fact, TORAH does NOT mean "law" but means "INSTRUCTION".  The word,
> TORAH, is the Strong's word (8451) and comes from the Hebrew word
> YARAH, which is the Strong's word (3384) which means,  "to lay a
> foundation, to teach, to point out as aiming the finger".
> 
> The word TORAH means INSTRUCTION concerning HOW I should live
> AFTER I am saved.  The word in the Bible that means SALVATION is
> YESHUA/Jesus (Matthew 1:21).
> 
> Go to a Christian and say the word SABBATH, they will think, "we are
> not under the law".  Say the word, SUNDAY and they will think
> "worshipping God at church".  But the day that God gave to worship
> Him was the SABBATH.
> 
> Go to a Christian and say the word, FESTIVALS, they will think, "we
> are not under the law".  Say the word, CHRISTMAS, and they will
> think, "the birthday of Jesus".  Did you ever hear a Christian speak
> to another Christian, why do you celebrate Christmas?  Don't you
> know that we are not under the law?  You don't have to put up a
> Christmas tree and buy gifts to be saved!  Don't you know that we
> are saved by GRACE?  You don't have to do all that Christmas stuff
> to be saved!  And why do you go to church on Sunday?  Don't you know
> that we are saved by GRACE then why do you go to  church on Sunday? 
> So, if we are saved by GRACE then why do you go to church on Sunday
> when it doesn't save you, but, yet we use the same logic when
> talking about the Sabbath and Biblical Festivals.
> 
> Sunday won't be the day of worship during the Messianic Age. 
> Christmas and Easter won't be celebrated during the Messianic Age. 
> But the Sabbath and Festivals will be.  As we have pointed out in
> the past, if the Sabbath and festivals are going to be celebrated
> during the Messianic Age and then for all eternity, aren't they
> valid for Christians to keep today?
> 
> We cannot fulfill loving God and loving our neighbor without keeping
> the Torah.  Loving God with all our heart is a commandment of the
> TORAH (Deuteronomy 6:4-5).  Yeshua/Jesus reiterated this truth in
> Mark 12:29-30.  Loving our neighbor as ourself is a TORAH
> commandment (Leviticus 18:19).  Yeshua/Jesus reiterated this truth
> in Mark 12:31.
> 
> Someone once asked Hillel who was a first Century Torah leader who
> lived when Yeshua/Jesus was a little boy, how do you summarize the
> keeping of the commandments in the Torah?  He replied, "Love God
> with all your heart, mind, soul and strength and love your neighbor
> as yourself. Everything else is commentary.  Go and Study"
> 
> So Yeshua/Jesus didn't give a new doctrine and understanding
> regarding the Torah when He said, "Love God and love your neighbor?.
>  Yet, Christians have interpreted that Yeshua/Jesus was saying that
> if we love then we don't have to keep the Torah.  Yet, Yeshua/Jesus
> said, "If you love me, keep my commandments"  (John 14:15).
> 
> The purpose of this is to give people a better perspective and
> understanding of Torah.
> 
> This is a summary of a letter written by Edward L. Chumney.
> 
> Submitted by Rev Marshall Martz
> 
> ********************************************************************
>

From:          Sharon Jurist
To:            heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject:       Re: Are Christians "Under the Law" ???


Shalom to everyone,

The writer of that first letter is all caught up in the phrase "under the
law" to the exclusion of what the scriptures say about the Torah as well
as what Saul himself, and the other talmidim say. Apparently the  writer
believes that it means that if you obey the Torah you have fallen from
grace. The answer (written by Eddie I think) was excellent.

I have been watching and thinking about this controversy over Torah for a
long time. It seems to me it comes down to a very simple issue. IF Saul's
writings about not being "under the law" means what most Christians say
it means, then we have a SERIOUS conflict with the holy scripture
(Tanakh) and the writings of the talmidim AND with Saul's pronouncements
on the Torah as well as his Torah observant lifestyle.

How can the theory that the Torah is abrogated be reconciled with Saul's
statements that "not the hearers of the Torah are just before G-d, but
the DOERS of the Torah will be justified." (Rom. 2:13), "On the contrary,
we ESTABLISH (look it up in the dictionary, it means to recognize and
accept without question, to promulgate, to prove the validity of) the
Torah." (Rom. 3:31), "So the Torah is holy, and the mitzvot is holy and
righteous and good." (Rom. 7:12), "...I agree with the Torah, that it is
good." (vs.16) and "...the righteousness which is in the Torah..." (Phil.
3:6).

More importantly, how can it be explained that Saul continued in a Torah
observant lifestyle, which he was asked to prove in Acts 21:24 "...all
will know that there is nothing to the things which they have told about
you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, KEEPING THE TORAH." Saul
also bragged about his Torah observance, "I have committed no offense
either against the Torah of the Judeans or against the temple or against
Caesar." (Acts 25:8) See also Acts 24:14 and 22:3. What about all the
believers ZEALOUS FOR THE TORAH mentioned in Acts 21:20 and Ananias who
was devout in the Torah (Acts 22:12)?

Why would John write that sin is violation of the Torah (1John 3:4) if
Torah was ended? James says the Torah is perfect and calls is the TORAH
OF LIBERTY (James 1:25) What, you mean the Torah isn't enslavement? Moshe
said as much, that the Torah is your LIFE (Deut. 32:47) and that the
mitzvot were NOT too difficult, but that it is near you, in your mouth
and in your heart (Deut. 30:11-14).

If we believe Saul, all scripture (the Tanakh, the New Testament wasn't
written yet, in fact Saul was busy writing some right then) is inspired
and profitable for teaching (2 Tim. 3:16). We read that the mitzva is a
lamp, and the Torah is light (Prov. 6:23), and the Torah of the Lord is
perfect, restoring the soul and the mitzva is pure (Psa. 19:7-8) Psalm
119 is all about Torah. "Open my eyes, that I may behold wonderful things
from Thy Torah" (vs. 18), "Give me understanding, that I may observe Thy
Torah" (vs.34), "And I shall delight in Thy mitzvot which I love" (vs.
47), "O how I love Thy Torah, it is my meditation all the day" (vs. 97),
"And all Thy mitzvot are TRUTH" (vs. 151).

According to the Bible, G-d's Word, His Torah is eternal as stated in
Isa. 40:8, Psa. 119:89, John 10:35 and Mark 13:31 (Y'shua is G-d
incarnate so He gave the Torah). We also read that G-d does NOT change
(Mal. 3:6) and what He does remains FOREVER, with nothing to add to it or
TAKE from it (Eccles. 3:14). What do we do about this if the Torah is
abolished?

Last but not least, Y'shua said that He had NOT come to abolish the
Torah, that not one yud or stroke would pass from the Torah until ALL is
accomplished (Mat. 5:17-18). As far as I can tell not all is accomplished
yet or we would not still be here watching prophecy come to pass and
waiting for His foot to touch the Mount of Olives.

With the weight of all the above scripture and apostolic writings and
lifestyles saying one thing and the single phrase "under the law"
supposedly saying something else, what are we to think? Either there
really is no conflict because "under the law" DOES NOT mean that the
Torah is ended, or the Bible is a nice but useless bunch of stories of no
real importance and we should live our lives any way we want to. Well,
that's what it comes down to for me. I'm sure there is alot more
scripture to argue the point back and forth, but why?

Blessings in the name of Y'shua.

Sharon

************************************************************************