From: heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 1997 1:02 AM To: Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup Subject: Re: Numbers 15:38-40 for the non-Jew ??? From: Bob and Remy Koch To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com Subject: Re: Numbers 15:38-40 for the non-Jew ??? Dear Eddie - > >Where can you substantiate that the non-Jew is to keep the Torah in his >heart only and the Jew is to keep the Torah literally and spiritually? Can >one keep Torah in his heart with no works that follow? (James) > From Eddie: *************** Bob, In the STRICT definition, the TORAH is the first five books. In a BROAD definition, the Jewish people see TORAH as the entire gammit of Jewish literature and commentary. In the Bible, TORAH and the WORD OF GOD are SYNONYMOUS terms. (Isaiah 2:3, Psalm 119:17-18) are TWO examples where (Torah = Word of God). So, when one follows the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, he is keeping Torah because he is keeping the Word of God. The FIRST FIVE BOOKS are our FOUNDATION for understanding the rest of the Bible and helps us to understand how we are to live our daily lives. As Bible believers, we are to follow the entirety of God's Word from Genesis to Revelation as it applies to each and every one of us. Therefore, by following the greatest commandment, you keep the Word of God/Torah physically and spiritually because it is written on your heart. It is true that faith without works is dead. But putting on phylacteries in and of and by itself is not a "good work" if while doing it the person is not living his life with a pure and contrite heart (Psalm 51:10, 17). Doing the WILL of God and living a Godly life with a pure heart and loving God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength is the SPIRIT of the Torah/Word of God which gives life (II Cor 3:6). Christianity is just beginning to open their eyes to the Jewishness of their faith and the Jewishness of the NT. Many/Most have not even got to the point where they have a spiritual understanding of how God gave the Sabbath and the Biblical Festivals to teach about the Messiah and God's Kingdom. Therefore, many/most Christians have not even gotten to the point where they know and understand about the paganism of Christmas/Easter and how God feels about mixing paganism with the worship of Himself and calling this composite system the true worship of the God of Israel. One must crawl before they can walk. They must walk before they can run. The Spirit of God is moving all over the earth. The Spirit of God is convicting His people all over the earth to begin to keep the Sabbath and the Biblical Festivals. He is not convicting people all over the earth to get up in the morning and put on phylacteries. When the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they moved WHEN the cloud moved. We also need to move WHEN the cloud moves. Presently, the Spirit of God is moving to convict His people to examine and keep the Sabbath and Biblical Festivals not to put on phylacteries in the morning and circumcise their children if they were not done so at birth. Yeshua talked about the WEIGHTIER issues of the Torah which were love, compassion for others, forgiveness etc. The weightier issues should not exclude the lighter issues but keeping the lighter issues rather than the weightier issues is not the heart of God concerning a "good work". Thus being said, I am in 100% agreement that "faith without works is dead" as it tells us in the book of James. > > >There is ONE LAW for the Israelite and for the stranger who dwells among you >(the ger hagur)! How can you say there are now TWO LAWS? > From Eddie: *************** I never said that there are TWO LAWS. I said in UNDERSTANDING the ONE LAW that we need to see what the scriptures say regarding the ROLE of the Jew and the non-Jew. We also need to take into considerating the spiritual level of understanding of God's people to be able to observe and to do things like the sabbath and the Festivals. We need to allow the Spirit of God to work in each of our lives. We should ENCOURAGE others in the faith. We should TEACH others what the scriptures say but we should be tolerant of where the Spirit of God has each believer in His walk of understanding the Hebraic/Jewish roots of our faith. I do not see in the NT where there is a commissioning for the non-Jew to put on phylacteries. I do see in the Bible and by understanding the history of the early followers of Yeshua/Jesus that they kept the sabbath and the Biblical festivals. However, this is NOT a salvation issue. > >This is a classic "Church" position when talking about the Torah and > how antinomianism takes hold. This is also the position of the > "Two COvenant" theory of salvation which is totally unBibilical. > From Eddie: *************** I agree that the TWO COVENANT theory of salvation is totally unBiblical. > >Are we on affirmative action for Gentiles because the poor things are >incapable of following Torah through the agency of the Ruach like the Jews >do? Yeshua, who did not come to change one jot or tittle of the Law (Torah), >also said that if a disciple truly loves Him, he will follow His >commandments. What then are these commandments? Was He talking >only to Jews? Without Torah people make up their own Torah - a kind of cafeteria >religion where they pick and choose what they will follow because it makes >them feel good. You cannot have it both ways. > From Eddie: *************** People may pick and choose but God's Word is clear regarding what He requires of His people and what the ROLE of the Jew and non-Jewish believer is in the Kingdom of God and allowing the Spirit of God to be the leader and teacher and convicter in each person's life. > >The circumcision is for the physical Jew only because it is a sign of the >covenant for the physical LAND of Israel - this is why the Gentile does not >need to be circumsized. > From Eddie: *************** In I Corinthians 7:18-20 it is written: "Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcism? let him not be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcism is nothing but keeping of the commandments of God. Let EVERY MAN abide in the SAME CALLING (Role) wherein he was called" > >Of course we believe one is saved by grace through faith, but that does not >eliminate Torah. > From Eddie: *************** I agree > >It places Torah on the spiritual level it was always meant >to be on rather than just the letter. > From Eddie: *************** The sabbath and Biblical Festivals have a SPIRITUAL application and they are to be LITERALLY kept. However, they should not be kept in a legalistic manner or attitude. > >Yours, > >Bob and Remy Koch > *************************************************************************