From: heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com
Sent: Friday, November 14, 1997 12:05 AM
To: Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup
Subject: Re: "Jesus as Jew" lecture
heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com wrote:
>
> Reply-to: history@virtual.co.il
> From: JUICE Administration <juice@virtual.co.il>
> To: Contemporary Jewish History <history@virtual.co.il>
> Subject: JUICE History 5
> X-To: history@wzo.org.il
>
> ==============================================================
> World Zionist Organization
> Student and Academics Department
> Jewish University in CyberspacE
> juice@wzo.org.il birnbaum@wzo.org.il
> http://www.wzo.org.il
> ==============================================================
> Course: An Introduction to the History of the Second Temple Period
> Lecture: 5/12
> Lecturer: Scott Copeland
>
> Important announcement: We will not be sending out lectures in our JUICE
> courses next week, during Sukkot. Hag Sameach!
>
> Herod the Great
>
> Among the many historic figures of the Second Temple period, one name
> especially stands out - Herod. Today, Herod is mainly remembered as a
> master builder. Sebaste, Caesaria, Masada, the Herodium, and his
> magnificent renovations of the Temple Mount all stand as testimony to his
> genius. However, Herod the Great, as he was by Roman historians, was also
> Herod the tyrant. Throughout his career, he combined a brilliant political
> acumen with a ruthless cunning. In both Jewish and Christian traditional
> sources, it is Herod the cruel, the despot, the murderous that is most
> remembered.
>
> Roman control of the East relied on the strength of allied local rulers.
> Along the Parthian border, local rulers helped maintain the peace by taking
> up part of the security burden that otherwise would fall to Roman legions.
> Local client kings implemented roman policy, and poured tax money into the
> Roman treasury. Within Judaea, the Romans hoped that the traditional
> Jewish animosity towards foreign rule could be softened by the Roman
> appointment of a loyal client king. In the best case, a Jewish ruler would
> be more acceptable, and therefore, more effective in Judaea. In the worst
> case, it would ultimately be the local ruler, not the Romans, who would be
> forced to ensure public order; or through persuasion or through repression.
>
> In 40 BCE, the Parthians invaded the Land of Israel. They replaced Hyrcanus
> II with Aristobolus II. Herod, forced to flee to Rome, pledged the Roman
> Senate that he would return order and Roman power throughout the
> country. Leading an army through the Galilee, Herod met with intense
> Jewish resistance. At Mount Arbel, overlooking the Sea of Kinneret,
> Herod's troops lowered themselves in iron cages over the cliffsides to do
> battle with Jewish warriors bunkered in the caves. Continuing south, in 37
> BCE, Herod conquered Jerusalem.
>
> Like his father, Herod realized that all political alliances are fleeting.
> In the midst of a power struggle between Mark Antony and Cleopatra against
> Octavian, Herod maneuvered between the opposing camps with the skill of a
> gladiator before the lions. When Octavian defeated Mark Antony at the
> battle of Atrium, Herod persuaded Octavian that just as he had been loyal
> to Mark Antony, now Herod would commit his loyalty to Octavian. Above all
> else, he managed to preserve his own dominance.
>
> The large Greek speaking population of the Land of Israel saw Herod as a
> benefactor and patron. The building of the city of Sebaste, and the
> expansion of Caesaria, the largest port in the Herodian Mediterranean,
> bolstered his popularity among his pagan subjects. Herod was a patron of
> Hellenistic culture. Not only did he help fund the Olympic games in Athens,
> but in Jerusalem itself, he erected an amphitheater and hippodrome. Herod
> recognized that the stability of his kingdom, especially taking into
> consideration his unpopularity among the Jews of the Land of Israel, rested
> on creating a counter-point of pagan support.
>
> Among the Jews of the Land of Israel, Herod was seen as a usurper. A
> Talmudic saying refers to Herod as a "slave of the Hasmonean house." With
> his entrance to Jerusalem, Herod began a campaign to wipe out any Jewish
> political force that could endanger his rule. The remnant of the Hasmonean
> dynasty, seen by the Jews as their legitimate rulers, was murdered. In an
> attempt to win legitimacy, Herod married Miriam, herself a Hasmonean
> princess. Perhaps she hoped that her sons would one day retake the throne.
> Miriam was accused by Herod's mother and sister of adultery and plotting to
> poison the king. In 29 BCE, Herod had Miriam executed. A talmudic tradition
> says that Herod preserved her body in honey, a reflection of his insanity
> and grotesque grief, and stored the corpse in a special chamber in the
> royal palace for seven years.
>
> Some say that he had intercourse with her, his reason for embalming her was
> to gratify his desires. According to those who say that he did not have
> intercourse with her, his reason was so that people might say that he
> married a king's daughter (Baba Batra 3b-4a)
>
> When his two sons by Miriam became too popular for Herod's taste, and much
> too critical of their father's policies, Herod ordered their execution by
> strangling.
>
> The other major group targeted by Herod as a potential political opposition
> were the Jewish sages, the rabbis, also known as the pharisees. Upon his
> ascension to the throne, he ordered the execution of forty-six members of
> the Sanhedrin. The Sanhedrin was the Senate and Supreme court of the Jewish
> people during much of the Second Temple period. Under Herod, the Sanhedrin
> was stripped of all power to rule on matters pertinent to the realm of
> secular politics. When two scholars and a group of forty students attempted
> to remove the Roman eagle from the facade to the Temple, they were
> arrested, and burned at the stake. On the eve of his death, Herod feared
> that after a thirty year reign of despotism, his subjects would rejoice
> with his passing. He immediately issued an order giving instruction that
> upon his death "the most eminent men of every village of Judaea." (The
> Jewish War. 1:655) would be rounded up, jailed in the hippodrome in
> Jerusalem, and be executed. The Christian tradition of the "massacre of
> the innocents" , although based on the tradition of Pharaoh's slaying of
> the male infants of the enslaved Hebrews, is plausible based on the
> catalogue of Herod's brutality.
>
> In 20 BCE, the project that won Herod historical immortality was begun -
> the refurbishing of the Temple and the expansion of the Temple Mount. As
> the center for Jewish pilgrimage from as far away as Rome and Babylon, the
> Temple compound as it was rebuilt by the refugees returning home from
> Babylon could not safely deal with huge crowds that inundated Jerusalem in
> the First Century BCE. The permanent population of Jerusalem during the
> reign of Herod is estimated by the archaeologist, Magen Broshi, to have
> been approximately 40,000 people (Biblical Arch Review. Volume 4, Number 2)
> With the influx of pilgrim traffic, predominately for the festivals of
> Pesah, Shavuot, and Sukkot, the population of the city may have jumped to
> an incredible 150,000. Herod expanded the natural hill of the Temple Mount
> largely towards the South, doubling the size of the original area. The
> Western Wall, a support wall comprising one side of the Herodian expansion,
> measures almost 485 meters or 1600 feet. Originally, the support walls may
> have reached a height of 45 meters or 148 feet high. Based on the
> excavations around the Temple Mount since 1967, Herodian stones have been
> revealed that weigh up to 300, and even over 550 tons.
> Josephus, both in his The Jewish War and in Antiquities , provides detailed
> accounts of the physical construction and layout of the Temple area. All
> told, the project continued for over 60 years, and employed upwards of
> 20,000 workers. Between Herod and the sages, no love was lost. Yet, with
> regards to the Temple, even the sages, exclaim the glory that was Herod's
> Jerusalem. Sources describe blue, yellow, and white marble that sparkled
> like the waves of the sea (Baba Batra 4a, Shemot Rabba 36:1)
> Josephus writes:
>
> Viewed from without the Sanctuary had everything that could amaze either
> mind or eyes. Overlaid all around with stout plates of gold, in the first
> rays of the sun it reflected so fierce a blaze of fire that those who
> endeavored to look at it were forced to turn away. . . . it seemed from a
> distance like a mountain covered with snow, for any part not covered in
> gold was dazzling white. . .
> The Jewish War. 5:224)
>
> Herod's interest in the Temple Mount project was not driven by a personal,
> religious passion. The Temple Mount project served as an excellent
> propaganda tool. For his Jewish subjects, the project helped to present
> Herod as a faithful Jew devoted to ensuring the proper implementation of
> the pilgrimage and the Temple ritual. For the non-Jews, especially the
> Romans, the Temple mount project portrayed Jerusalem, not as a primitive
> backwater of a barbarian people, but as a international city of fine design
> and renowned beauty. Jerusalem of Herod's day was a Hellenistic-Roman style
> city. With it's villas, gardens, theaters, and gymnasium, Jerusalem was no
> different physically than any other of the great cities of the ancient
> world. The Temple mount, fully twenty percent of the entire city area, was
> the city acropolis, site of local shrines, public offices, banks, and
> market places. Herod's building projects, in and outside Jerusalem, may
> have also been designed as public works projects. If people are working,
> they have less time for politics. If people are working, they can pay their
> taxes. As long as taxes were paid, Herod helped to fill Roman coffers. Of
> course as long as the country was quiet, and Rome continued to receive
> tribute from Herod, Herod remained in power. For Herod, clearly, no other
> goal stood above that of maintaining crown and throne.
>
> For next time:
> 1. Hershel, Shanks. Ancient Israel. (Prentice-Hall, 1987). pp. 218-221.
> 2. Josephus. The Jewish War. (Penguin Books, 1978). pp. 125-130.
>
> **************************************************************************
>
From: Daniel Keyes
To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject: Re: "Jesus as Jew" lecture
Dear Eddie,
I continue to enjoy our discussion group... We just had a baby boy 21
days ago, and as a result I dropped out for a while. He is a vigorous
little one, And his parents are doing their best to get some sleep!
I thought that the email from "Jewish University in Cyberspace, JUICE"
was provocative, but this discussion, in my opinion, fell short of the
usually high scholarly character of the course. I say this because the
lecturer does not substantiate many of the key points he makes. Opinion
seems to reign here.
For example, he states that there are inconsistencies between the
gospels, but does not cite any examples. He states that two of the
gospels do not say where Yeshua was born, but this is not an example of
an inconsistency. Inconsistencies do exist in the gospels, but they also
exist in the Tanach and the "Oral Torah." The question is, are they
critical, significant differences?
He refers to Yeshua (Jesus) with the derogatory "Yesu." This term is
used by people who wish to denigrate Messiah. It refers to an acronym
which means, "may his name be blotted out of history forever."
He criticizes the gospels as being written late in the first century,
C.E., hence not very accurate historically. But then he states that
Yeshua copied Hillel (the famous "Torah on one foot" quote), for whom
our sources are from the year 200! (i.e. the Mishna). I would ask you,
"who copied whom?"
The discussion about the virgin birth vs. young woman from Isaiah leaves
out the important point that "virgin" was at least one of the popular
interpretations at the time these events took place. This is evident
from the fact that the Septuagint - written hundreds of years before the
time of Yeshua, and the accepted Greek translation of the time --
translates this as virgin, not "young woman." Hence his discussion is
not balanced, and I would argue, misleading. I would be interested in
your opinion on this concept, Eddie.
He quotes Cohn's: The Trial and Death of Jesus, as saying that it was
not the custom to judge people during the night, etc. to imply that the
gospel version of the trial was not accurate. I am not familiar with
Cohn's sources, so it is hard for me to comment. But I doubt they are
sufficient to prove that devations from "tradition" did not occur,
especially in these turbulent, angry times, when Judaism was so
threatened by Rome and other influences.
The one positive aspect of the article is his certainty about the true
Jewishness of Yeshua.
I would say that this monograph does not provide a useful addition to
the debate about Yeshua. What are your thoughts?
Thank you for your interest and outreach.
Chris Keyes, Dallas
>From Eddie:
**************
Chris,
I agree with your analysis and opinion of the article. The
purpose of distributing the article was not because I agreed with
what was writtin in it but to educate our members of how
some Orthodox religious Jews view the historical Jesus and thus
Christianity. Therefore, the purpose was INFORMATIONAL only.
Thank you for your comments and concerns.
***********************************************************************