From: heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com
To: "Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup"<heb_roots_chr@geocities.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 03:09:13 +0000
Subject: Celebrating Christmas - Part II
From: Carmen Sweitzer
To: <heb_roots_chr@geocities.com>
Subject: Celebrating Christmas
Eddie,
Does this mean that those of us who celebrate Christmas are
ungodly or pagans ?
>From Eddie:
**************
Absolutely not and I never stated this. In fact, I have stated just
the opposite. If you have accepted Yeshua/Jesus as your Messiah, then
you are saved. Christmas is NOT a salvation issue. I have written to
the group and told the group my own testimony that when I celebrated
Christmas with all my heart in years past that I was NOT a pagan. I
may have been a child in my understanding. I may have been ignorant
in my understanding of how to worship God, but I most certainly was
not a pagan and neither are you.
I am only trying to encourage you to STUDY and understand the
significance of the Biblical Festivals to the heart of God and how HE
gave them to understand HIM and the ways of His Kingdom. Before I
understood these things, the Biblical festivals had no meaning to me.
Now, since I have studied their significance, they have MUCH meaning
to me and I now am able to see the heart and mind of God regarding how
important they are to HIM.
>From Carmen:
*****************
I agree with Lorah. I believe that God is more concerned about the
conditions of our heart rather than "outward" sacrifices.
>From Eddie:
**************
This is true. In Joel 2:13 it is written:
"And rend your heart, and not your garments ..."
>From Carmen:
*****************
And yes, I believe that we should be careful not to cause a brother to
stumble. But isn't a broken and contrite heart more pleasing to our
Father than the outward appearance of righteousness?
>From Eddie:
**************
In Psalm 51:17 it is written:
"The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite
heart, O God thou wilt not despise"
But, you cannot have a broken and contrite heart if you do not realize
that you are doing something that is not God's best for you.
In Ecclesiastes 1:18 is written:
"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increases knowledge
increases sorrow"
When I was ignorant of the important of the Biblical Festivals to God,
how they taught about His redemptive plan and our personal
relationship with God, I had no sorrow that I was keeping Christmas
and Easter. But, when I learned the pagan origin of Christmas and
Easter and when I learned that Christianity had did the SAME THING as
the children of Israel, it cause me great sorrow for my fellow brother
and sisters in Christ.
Like it says in Ecclesiastes, with much wisdom came much sorrow. I
then had a broken and contrite heart. I had a tender heart and I
repented of God of my ways because I knew that it pleased Him MORE
to keep the Festivals that HE gave rather than ones that came from
paganism. Does a Holy God desire worship toward Him that originated
in paganism ??? So, in my broken heart, I repented and I began to do
what HE wanted me to do and keep HIS Biblical Festivals.
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From: "Pam Staley"
To: "Eddie Chumney" <heb_roots_chr@geocities.com>
Subject: Celebrating Christmas
Although the debate will go on until the end of time...I'm sure that most
of us on this newsgroup truly are searching for the 'truth'. We have been
programmed from infanthood concerning the pagan holidays, and have
innocently followed these teachings and glossings over of the true Biblical
Feast Days, because we trusted the 'teachers'. Most of us have been
brought up in church surroundings...that means that we are programmed to
accept them...after all, 'we' didn't really have to study...just listen and
accept.
However, God is calling His people out...and to do that He must first teach
them His precepts AND His commandments. What commandments?? The
Torah.....a subject most Christians know little to nothing about. And HOW
does He teach us?? by first putting a yearning in our heart...a quest for
truth, a search for Him...and this leads directly to the FESTIVALS OF THE
LORD.... these are our teaching tools...our blocks of understanding....our
text book. Thru these Festivals, He has outlined the blueprint for
mankind, He has shown us the beginning to the end...everything is explained
in these Festivals and in the Tabernacle.
But as babes, we must fight constantly with the old familiarity of
Egypt...it was easy to listen and accept...it was simple to be told what to
believe, when to believe it and what to do. NOW He wants us to search out
the truth, to explore His ways, .... to KNOW Him. Unlearning...can be
painful, can be hurtful but can be so cleansing. But know that you will
have those close to you that will try to disassociate themselves with you,
will mock you and will cause you pain. There are many trials and
tribulations that you will have to endure as you slowly learn the ways of
Yahweh...for they are strange to us who have been 'christianized' and who
have lost the identity of our roots. Our heritage has been wiped
clean...as the church began a new page in the early 300's...she took the
eraser, and wiped the chalkboard clean of our Hebraic Heritage, our
Israelite roots, and had us write 500 times..."I am a Christian in the
Roman Church...I do not belong to the House of Israel", I am a Christian in
the Roman Church...I do not belong to the House of Israel", I am a
Christian in the Roman Church...I do not belong to the House of Israel".
It is a hard thing to unlearn...especially when you are surrounded by
others who are still repeating it over and over and over....
BUT the good news is that HE IS FAITHFUL....thru all the trials and
tribulations that we go thru, thru all the tears, wrong paths, and good
intentions seemingly gone wrong....HE will uphold us..HE will carry us...HE
will not forsake us....>>> HE HAS A PLAN << and everything we go thru,
absolutely everything...will work towards our good...for those who love the
Lord and are called....
So, dear friends...those of you just beginning on this new fork in the road
of life, have patience....trust in the Lord...and He will teach you what
you need to know....ask and He shall answer....
and sometimes......He'll answer thru those of us on this newsgroup who have
been around for awhile....and have the scars to prove it! ;->
Shalom, and Shalom
Pam
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From: Donal Levesque
To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject: Celebrating Christmas
The church today is liken on to Jews being called out of Babylon. They had
acquired strange customs and strange wives. The Lord required them to
divorce and send away those pagan spouses and offsprings.
Ezra 10:2-3: "2 And Shechaniah the son of Jehiel, one of the sons of
Elam, spoke up and said to Ezra, "We have trespassed against our God, and
have taken pagan wives from the peoples of the land; yet now there is hope
in Israel in spite of this. 3"Now therefore, let us make a covenant with
our God to put away all these wives and those who have been born to them,
according to the advice of my master and of those who tremble at the
commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law. "(NKJ)
Today the Lord is calling His bride out of Babylon (the old religious
system) to His Torah. The wives of today's believers are the pagan rituals
and so called holydays of Christmas, Easter, etc. The Samaritans had tried
to find the God of Israel in duplicating some of the ordinances and mixing
them with old paganistic concepts. And Jesus said to the little lady at
the well, John 4:22: "You worship what you do not know; we know what we
worship, for salvation is of the Jews." (NKJ)
Separating from those old concepts is hard, and only a sincere heart can
the Golden calf of religion be broken, and that is having a real
relationship with the Lord. His Holy Torah then will set people free, from
the bondage of religion and commercialized religious customs.
Don
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To: heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com
From: Rob Hill
Subject: Christmas Responses
Dear Eddie:
By the way, I am trying to get my wife to read this particular
document. She's trying everything she can to not do that. I have to
admit, Christmas has always been a happy time with all of the
traditions, but I'm not happy about participating in it when I know
that God has told me not to. The only arguments for continuing to
celebrate these rituals are purely emotional. I have found no one who
can defend their practice from a logical standpoint - not one.
No one has been able to show me anything in the Bible that says that
it is okay to substitute pagan rituals as worship ceremonies of God.
In fact, there is only direct commandments against doing so. The only
thing left is to say that one simply has decided that these passages
don't apply for some reason, and it is therefore "no big deal".
Scrape away all of the rationalization from such statements and you
are left with open defiance: "I don't care what God says; I'm
celebrating Christmas anyway!" That has lead me to ask: "Is a holiday
worth openly defying God?" Boil it all down and - like it or not -
that is what you're left with.
That has left me with the choice between what I want to do and what
God wants me to do. The funny thing is, the more I learn about God,
the more I WANT to do what He wants me to do. No amount of childhood
memories can overcome the happiness that comes from living a Godly
life.
Sure people will think I'm weird. Christians have always been the
real counterculture (as have the Jews) - at least when we do it right.
But I'd hate to go to heaven and try to explain why it was just to
hard to give up celebrating Christmas to the souls of those eaten by
lions and burned at the steak for their commitment to God. I mean can
you imagine trying to get that one by Peter!?
Rob Hill
President
The Historian's Gallery
***********************************************************************
From: Susan Jones
To: <heb_roots_chr@geocities.com>
Subject: Christmas
Eddie,
We have made the decision, with the Lord's leading, to give up the
holiday of Christmas. When we made the choice, we felt a tremendous
relief, as though a burden had been lifted off us. We have peace
about this, and our children agree with us completely.
In our church, Christmas is still celebrated, being mentioned every
single service all through December. We know that the path we have
chosen, not everyone will see or choose. But among our Christian
friends, we find that they want to argue with us that we are being
legalistic by doing this, that we are "not under the Law", that it is
irrelevant whether it is really Jesus' birthday, etc. Many of them
even admit that they know the origins of the celebrations of Christmas
are pagan, but that they are using them to draw attention to Jesus, so
it is okay. I have a problem with this, I see it as compromise, and
I cannot do it this way. I will not "push" them to believe it the
way I see it, only God can reveal it to them. But the most difficult
thing about giving up pagan practices is not in actually giving them
up, but in the reactions of Christians to it.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Susan
>From Eddie:
**************
I have several thoughts which come to mind.
#1) Don't portray an attitude of superiority and pride over those who
still celebrate Christmas
#2) When you share with other why you don't celebrate Christmas
telling them about the pagan origin of Christmas and richness
of the truths that God gave us to understand in the Biblical
Festivals, always remember to "speak the truth in love".
Remember also that there was a day when you celebrated Christmas.
Remember also that when you celebrated Christmas, you were also
saved by the blood of Yeshua/Jesus when you received Him into your
heart and asked Him to be your personal Lord and Savior
#3) While you may not personally have a Christmas tree in your house
or exchange presents, if you are asked by other family members
to be with them during the Christmas season and have dinner
with them, show respect unto them and eat with them. You can
eat and be with family members during the Christmas season
without personally celebrating Christmas yourself in your home.
***********************************************************************