Subject: Re. Acts 15 and the Gentile
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:54:53 +0000
From: heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com
Reply-To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
To: "Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup"<heb_roots_chr@geocities.com>

From:          Dee Crabb
To:            heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject:       Re. Acts 15 and the Gentile

Eddie,

Bravo !!!! Your answer and teaching sent to Mr. Nowland was excellent.

The Gentiles were to keep the Noachide laws. That is Torah
observance. And in those Noachide laws, if they are defined properly, is
the idea of eating kosher foods. Is that Torah observance? Yes. Also to
not become affiliated with idolatry, is that not Torah observance? Yes.
The eating of blood, to not eat it, is that Torah observance? Yes. Torah
observance is obeying the laws of God, His regulations, His
requirements.

Can we just jump right in and do all the things of God? No. We must
learn, and that takes time. How much we learn, and how fast we learn
is all up to us. You cannot learn any of it until you observe it, and study
it.
God makes allowances for the Gentile believers.

Jewish boys are taught Torah from a very young age. But it takes a few
years before they can observe all things with knowledge and
understanding. It will take a few years for a Gentile believer, too. After
all we are new born babes when  we start on our walk with Messiah.

The point for believers is that Yeshua is in each and every festival. And
there is much eschatology to study in those festivals. If you want to know
what is to happen in the future, and on what days, then festival study is a
must, as well as all the services and study of Sabbath. And as we know,
to observe is to rehearse all these things.

I appreciate your boldness in speaking the truth, and providing the
Scriptures to back it all up. We are to do all things in love, but that does
not do away with boldness when speaking the truth of God's Word.

To reject any of the teachings in the Torah, to ignore them, to say they are
of no affect or profit for us, is in reality rejecting what Yeshua said,
 "Keep My commandments." Its very plainly spoken.

Thanks again, for your great insights.

Shalom and love,

Dee.

**********************************************************************

To:            heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
From:          Michael Detwiler
Subject:       Re: Acts 15 and Non-Jewish Torah Observance

Dear Philip Nowland and friends on the Hebrew Roots Forum,

Your arguments do indeed seem valid, however, there is a
contradiction between your point and that taught by Messiah Yeshua.

His words: (Matthew19:16-17)

"Now behold, one came and said to Him 'Good Teacher, what
good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?'  So He said to
him, 'Why do you call Me good?  No one is good but One, that is God.
But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Tonight I was reading through 1st and 2nd John, just for edification,
and the following passages were brought to my attention by the Ruach
HaKodesh / Holy Spirit.  I submit these in the spirit of continued and
further revelation, knowing first that the Torah or Law question must be
viewed from one very important aspect . . .  THAT NO
MAN, JEW OR GENTILE WAS EVER MADE RIGHTEOUS (saved) BY
TORAH OBSERVANCE.

According to many passages in the Tenakh / OT, all summed up in
Hebrews 11, our "Old Testament Saints" were all found to be righteous
by their faith . . . faith in the Word of the Lord (which became flesh in
the
form of Messiah Yeshua) and faith in Him (the Messiah) to come.  They
were not "saved" by works of righteousness, by Torah observance, or
by obedience to the Law.  It wasn't that way for the Jew, nor is it
suggested that it would be that way for the Gentile.

Observance of the Law (Torah) is a matter of life, quality of life,
testimony
of life, and the passing of a Godly heritage to the proceeding generations.
Without the dictates and constraints of Torah, how would this world have
evolved socially?  We can all see in our newspapers and on CNN the
state of the world without constraint.  Man IS doing what is right in his
own eyes, and we can see the result both in the world and in the Church.
God never intended it to be that way.  The world is lawless, rebellious
against all that is good and right and taught as precepts,
commandments, teachings, etc.

The question is NOT salvation.  Eddie has
quoted Matthew 5:19 where it is stated that if one breaks one of the
least of the commandments and teaches men to do so that he will be
called the least in the Kingdom of God.  Note, it does not say that he
will not inherit the Kingdom of God . . . yes, he will be there since
it is not a salvation question, yet he will be called the least there
(whatever that means).  (Note from Eddie: I explain what this means
in my book, "Who is the Bride of Christ?")

As true believers, though, we know that there are differences between
sin and iniquity.  Sin is breaking the law (Torah).  Certainly all
"Christian" "Non-Torah" believers would agree with that.  This happens
to us all.  The Lord has made a way for us, it is confession and
forgiveness.  "If you, Lord, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who could
stand?  But there is forgiveness with You, that You may be feared."
Psalm 130:3-4.

We all make mistakes.  We all find ourselves outside the boundaries of
the dictates of Torah.  When we find ourselves there, we realize our
sin, repent of it, and things are made right with Him.  I submit that
the passage quoted above in Matthew 19 refers to those who will make
a lifestyle of being obedient to the precepts of Torah.  Again, no man
is "good".  All will fail from time to time, however, it remains in
the hearts of those who are considered righteous to repent and get
back on the track of being obedient.

Iniquity though, seems to be more of a continual life style that is
dictated by and instrumented by rebellion.  It is a heart condition
that is wilfully bent to continue in that way. It is the continual
practice of lawlessness.  This is a very dangerous place to walk.  It
is a place that shows no repentance, no faith, no heartfelt desire to
serve and be obedient to God.  Why did Yeshua / Jesus use this
term . . . lawless?  What is the Law?  It has to be the Torah.  There is
no other "Law" that is to be practiced or observed.

Being in iniquity is the danger zone that one may find himself
recorded in Matthew 7:23 ". . . depart from Me, I never knew you, you
who PRACTICE lawlessness."

We see in Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8 and 10, that the promise of the
Torah being written on our hearts becomes reality for the modern
believer.

What is it that is written on our hearts?  Why is it there?  I suggest
that it is the essence of the Torah, the Spirit of Torah, the words of
Torah that will bring conviction to us as we in our fleshly nature
continually walk in a contrary manner, and that this 'Torah on our
heart' is there in an attempt to dictate some sort of moral and
ethical quality to the lives of believers.  What else could be written
on our hearts if it is not the Torah?  If it is, what would be the
purpose for it being there if we were not expected to walk in it's
ways and dictates?

The following exerpts are from 1st and 2nd John, supported by other
passages and some of my notes which are of course, not inspired, but
are added for understanding.

I John 3:4

"Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is
lawlessness".

Whoever commits sin does so because he is lawless, filled with
iniquity, being outside of the boundaries of Torah.  Lawlessness
(living in ways that are outside the limits and boundaries of Torah)
is sin.  Lawlessness is a life that is being lived outside the
restraints of Torah.

Matthew 7:21-23

"Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of
heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will
say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your
name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your
name?'  23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you;  depart
from Me, you who practice lawlessness.!"

I John 2:3-6

Verse 3.  Now by this we know that we love Him, if we keep His
commandments.

He is the Living Torah.  Everything that He spoke was based upon and
judged by the Torah.

John 1:1 and 14

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word
was God . . . 14 and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us."

Revelation 19:13

"He was clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The
Word of God."

Verse 4. He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His
commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

James 2:17 and 20

". . . faith by itself, if it does not have works is dead.  20  But do
you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?"

I John 3:18

"My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed
and in truth."

Verse 5. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is
perfected in him.  By this we know that we are in Him.

His word is His Torah.  The keeping of the Torah perfects both a
love of God and a love and respect for fellow men and women.

Verse 6. He who says he abides in Him ought also to walk just as He
walked.

How did He walk?  He walked obedient to Torah, honoring it,
obeying it, and serving God by it.

How did He  walk?

John  15:10

"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I
have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love."

I John 3:22

And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His
commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

John 14:12-15

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes I Me, the works that I
do he will do also;  and greater works than these he will do, because
I go to my Father.  13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will
do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  14 If you ask
anything in My name I will do it. 15  If you love Me, keep my
commandments.

2 John 4-6

I rejoiced greatly that I have found some of your children walking in
truth, as we received commandment from the Father.

I rejoiced greatly that I have found some of your children living
according to truth, as we received in the Torah.

And now I plead with you, the elect, the Church, not as though I wrote
a new commandment to you, but that which we have had from the
beginning: that we love one another.

And now I plead with you, the elect, the Church, the new believer, to
remember the Torah, as it was given to man from the beginning in
Bereshit, that we should love and respect one another.

This is love, that we walk according to His commandments.  This is the
commandment, that as you has heard from the beginning, you should
walk in it.

This is love, that we live according to His Torah.  This is the
commandment, that you have heard from Bereshit / beginning that you
should live according to Torah and that by doing so, you will show each
other the great love that you have for Him and one another.

The message of 2nd John is broken down into 2 categories.  First, that
we are to walk according to His commandments, this is His teaching
and is called the Doctrine of Christ in verse 9.   The rest of the
chapter, verses 7-11, speaks of those deceivers who will come and
"transgress the Doctrine of Christ."  We are told to not receive him
nor greet him, lest we share in his evil deeds.

I suggest that a comprehensive study of all the epistles would yield
similar revelation.

Michael Detwiler

**************************************************************************