Subject: Re: Jewish believer attitude toward non-Jews Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:18:44 +0000 From: heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com Reply-To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com To: "Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup"<heb_roots_chr@geocities.com>
> > From: heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com > To: Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup <heb_roots_chr@geocities.com> > Subject: Jewish believer attitude toward non-Jews > > To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com > From: Michael Detwiler > Subject: Torah observant Jewish believer attitude toward > the non-Jewish believer > > I have a question that I need some input on from those on this > forum. > > I am a Jewish believer in Yeshua Messiah. I have always assumed > that the Torah was a lifestyle issue that applied to all who would > come to this faith. In my previous post, I discussed the issue of > whether or not it was a salvation issue . . . which I strongly believe > it is not. > > I have noticed a very predominant resistance from the Gentile Church > to submit to the precepts of Torah . . . in a way, I can understand > this, and this issue requires teaching, understanding and a work > of the Holy Spirit. I am tolerant and patient with this issue. > > I have also noticed amongst many of my believing Jewish friends who > themselves attempt to retain their submission to Gods ways, his > teachings, commandments . . . who themselves attempt to live a lifestyle that > is submitted to Torah, an attitude. It is almost whatever the > opposite of anti-Semitic would be. Maybe the term is anti-Gentile. > They, submitted to Torah themselves, are very protective of the Torah, and do not want > it shared with Gentile believers. They seem to miss the point of > the "new man" theology of Ephesians, and the "One law for all" > teachings of Numbers 15:15, Exodus 12:49, Leviticus 24:22, and > Numbers 15:29. > > Does anyone have any comments on this? I need some sort of > undestanding of this attitude. > > From Eddie: > ************** > > Michael, > > I praise the Lord that HE has opened your eyes and that you have > recognized this issue and understand that this attitude of the > Jewish believer (particularly those who try to observe Torah) is > indeed often one of arrogance and pride toward the non-Jewish > believer who they often view as "second class believers". > > Jewish believer arrogance toward the non-Jewish believer is > present within the MJAA and UMJC organizations (but not by all > members) and also by SOME independent Jewish believers who try to > adhere to a Torah observant lifestyle. > > This is a MAJOR problem and most all non-Jewish believers > associated with the "Hebraic Roots" movement has experienced this in > some form or fashion. > > Just as over the many centuries of church history, anti-semitic > attitudes toward the Jews and anti-Torah teachings within the church > contributed to MUCH Jewish suffering over the past 2,000 years, > SOME Torah observant believers today are expressing the same > attitude and mindset toward the non-Jewish believers who they often > view as "second class believers" and many times have an attitude > of "anti-church" and "anti-Christian". > > These attitudes BREAK THE HEART of the God of Israel. > Yeshua/Jesus died for BOTH Jew and non-Jew and BOTH are fully > accepted by God with EQUAL STATUS as members in the Kingdom of God > by accepting Yeshua/Jesus as Messiah. > > In Acts 15:15:7-9 it is written: > > "And when there had been much disputing (over Jewish attitude toward > the non-Jew regarding Torah observance), Peter rose up, and said > unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God > made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the > word of the gospel and believe. And God which knoweth the hearts > bare them witness giving them (the non-Jewish believer) the Holy > Spirit, even as he did unto us (the Jewish believer): and put NO > DIFFERENCE between us (Jewish believer) and them (non-Jewish > believer) purifying their heart by faith" > > In Romans 3:22 it is written: > > "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ > unto ALL and upon ALL them that believe: for there is no difference > (between Jew and non-Jew)" > > In Romans 3:29-30 it is written: > > "Is he the God of the Jews (Jewish believers) only? is he not also > of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also. Seeing it is one God > which shall justify the circumcision (Jewish believer) by faith, and > the uncircumcision (non-Jewish believer) through faith". > > In Romans 10:12 it is written: > > "For there is NO DIFFERENCE between Jew (Jewish believer) and the > Greek (non-Jewish believer): for the same Lord over ALL is rich unto > ALL that call upon him." > > > In Galations 3:28, it is written: > > "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, > there is neither male nor female: for you are ALL ONE in Christ > Jesus" > > In Galations 5:6, it is written: > > "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision (Jewish believer) availeth > any thing, nor uncircumcision (non-Jewish believer) but faith which > worketh by LOVE" > > In Colossians 3:11 it is written: > > "Where there is neither Greek (non-Jewish believer) nor Jew (Jewish > believer), circumcision (Jewish believer) nor uncircumcism > (non-Jewish believer) ... but Christ is ALL and IN ALL" > > In I Corinthians 13:2 it is written: > > "And though I have ... all knowledge (of Torah observance) ... and > have not LOVE, I am NOTHING". > > In John 13:35, Yeshua/Jesus spoke these words: > > "By THIS shall ALL MEN know that you are my disciples > (students/followers): if you have LOVE one to another (Jewish and > non-Jewish believer)" > > In I John 3:14 it is written: > > "We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we LOVE > the BRETHREN . He that loveth not his brother abideth in death" > > There is a VERY FAMOUS and ANCIENT Jewish song taken from > Psalm 133. It is called, "Hene Ma Tov", and the songs says: > > "Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for BRETHREN (Jewish and > non-Jewish believer) to dwell together in UNITY" > > In Psalm 133:1,3 it is written: > > "Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell > together in unity! ... for THERE (when brethren dwell together in > unity) the Lord COMMANDED the BLESSING even life (CHAI ... La > chayim) forevermore" > > In Messiah, HE has broken down the wall of separation between > > Jew and non-Jew. Baruch HaShem! > > If we are followers of Messiah (both Jew and non-Jew), let US > keep HIS commandments (and the greatest was LOVE for each other) and > dwell together in UNITY so that the blessing of God is COMMANDED > upon us (Psalm 133:3) and the world will KNOW that Yeshua/Jesus is > Messiah !!! (John 17:21). > > P.S. One of the best messages I have ever heard on this subject and > how the Jewish believer attitude toward the non-Jewish believer (who > is a type of Ruth) was given by Messianic Rabbi Jonathan Kahn at the > 1996 MJAA conference. It should be noted that Messianic Rabbi Kahn > DOES believe that both Jewish and non-Jewish believer ARE one in > Messiah and both should treat each other accordingly. > > For those intersted in this issue, I would encourage all of you to > get this tape. > > From: Fredrick L. Murphy To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com Subject: Re: Jewish believer attitude toward non-Jews Wow, Eddie. This WHOLE piece was absolutely beautiful. Such Truth! Such harmony, Love, Joy, and Piece is offered by the Righteous Judge of ALL the earth! Thank you for this posting, it's a real reminder for all of us to be more like Yeshua, as that's all that matters. Fredrick *********************************************************************** From: Patrice Stanton To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com Subject: Re: Jewish believer attitude toward non-Jews Dear Michael and Eddie and everyone: I'm saddened to say, What a relief to know that "it's not just me..." I've had precisely just such encounters with Jewish believers very recently - or else I've only just been sensitized to the hostility recently. Actually, I label it more as a "possessiveness" of Torah, and to be honest, after two such encounters, I felt as if my heart had had something (Torah) ripped out from it, I was literally heartbroken. It took a day of going back to the Scriptures, such as you, Eddie, presented in your answer, but once again, after I had bounced back, I KNEW that ALL of the Torah was as much "mine" to keep in my own fallible, humanly imperfect way, as it was theirs... Afterwards, in hindsight, I feel a little sad for folks with that attitude. What kind of "light to the nations" are they? None whatsoever. -- Sincerely, Patrice Stanton **************************************************************** From: Stephen Westman To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com Subject: Re: Jewish believer attitude toward non-Jews Dear Michael; As a Messianic Rabbi who is also of Jewish background, I too have seen alot of Anit-Gentile attitudes. It is very sad that this is occurring, but not suprising. Since the Jewish people have been cast off in so many areas of life for so long, its understandable to see them try to cling to something that they see as "theirs". It is NOT the way it should be, nor the way G-D ever intended it to be. There are those of us who are Messianic who hold to the all encompassing teaching that there is to be ONE PEOPLE of G-D. They may be Hebrew, Jewish or Gentile, but they must all follow the lifestyle that G-d gave in Torah and that Y'Shua Ha Machiash lived. Only when we ALL give up our past baggage and start anew within the Torah lifestyle will we be truly Echad (joined without seams)(one). Rabbi J'hudah ben Levi *************************************************************************