Subject: RE: Jewish Believers attitude toward non-Jews
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:32:42 +0000
From: heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com
Reply-To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
To: "Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup"<heb_roots_chr@geocities.com>
CC: yadhu@haydid.org

 

> To:            heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
> From:          Michael Detwiler
> Subject:      Torah observant Jewish believer attitude toward
>                      the non-Jewish believer
>
> I have a question that I need some input on from those on this
> forum.
>
> I am a Jewish believer in Yeshua Messiah.  I have always assumed
> that the Torah was a lifestyle issue that applied to all who would
> come to this faith.  In my previous post, I discussed the issue of
> whether or not it was a salvation issue . . . which I strongly
> believe it is not.
>
> I have noticed a very predominant resistance from the Gentile Church
> to submit to the precepts of Torah . . . in a way, I can understand
> this, and this issue requires teaching, understanding and a work of
> the Holy Spirit. I am tolerant and patient with this issue.
>
> I have also noticed amongst many of my believing Jewish friends who
> themselves attempt to retain their submission to Gods ways, his
> teachings,  commandments . . . who themselves attempt to live a
> lifestyle that  is submitted to Torah, an attitude.  It is almost whatever
the
> opposite of anti-Semitic would be.  Maybe the term is anti-Gentile.
> They, submitted to Torah themselves, are very protective of the
> Torah, and do not want
> it shared with Gentile believers.  They seem to miss the point of
> the "new man" theology of Ephesians, and the "One law for all"
> teachings of Numbers 15:15, Exodus 12:49, Leviticus 24:22, and
> Numbers 15:29.
>
> Does anyone have any comments on this?  I need some sort of
> undestanding  of this attitude.
>
> From Eddie:
> **************
>
>         Michael,
>
>    I praise the Lord that HE has opened your eyes and that you have
> recognized this issue and understand that this attitude of the
> Jewish believer (particularly those who try to observe Torah) is
> indeed often one of arrogance and pride toward the non-Jewish
> believer who they often view as "second class believers".
>
>    Jewish believer arrogance toward the non-Jewish believer is
> present within the MJAA and UMJC organizations (but not by all
> members) and also by SOME independent Jewish believers who try to
> adhere to a Torah observant lifestyle.
>
>    This is a MAJOR problem and most all non-Jewish believers
> associated with the "Hebraic Roots" movement has experienced this in
> some form or fashion.
>
>    Just as over the many centuries of church history,  anti-semitic
> attitudes toward the Jews and anti-Torah teachings within the church
> contributed to  MUCH Jewish suffering over the past 2,000 years,
> SOME Torah  observant believers today are expressing the same
> attitude and mindset  toward the non-Jewish believers who they often
> view as  "second class believers"  and many times have an attitude
> of   "anti-church" and  "anti-Christian".
>
>        These attitudes BREAK THE HEART of the God of Israel.
> Yeshua/Jesus died for BOTH Jew and non-Jew and BOTH are fully
> accepted by God with EQUAL STATUS as members in the Kingdom of
> God  by accepting Yeshua/Jesus as Messiah.
>
>         In Acts 15:15:7-9 it is written:
>
> "And when there had been much disputing (over Jewish attitude
> toward  the non-Jew regarding Torah observance), Peter rose up, and said
> unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God
> made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the
> word of the gospel and believe. And God which knoweth the hearts
> bare them witness giving them (the non-Jewish believer) the Holy
> Spirit, even as he did unto us (the Jewish believer): and put NO
> DIFFERENCE between us (Jewish believer) and them (non-Jewish
> believer) purifying their heart by faith"
>
>         In Romans 3:22 it is written:
>
> "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ
> unto ALL and upon ALL them that believe: for there is no difference
> (between Jew and non-Jew)"
>
>         In Romans 3:29-30 it is written:
>
> "Is he the God of the Jews (Jewish believers) only? is he not also
> of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also.  Seeing it is one God
> which shall justify the circumcision (Jewish believer) by faith, and
> the uncircumcision (non-Jewish believer) through faith".
>
>         In Romans 10:12 it is written:
>
> "For there is NO DIFFERENCE between Jew (Jewish believer) and the
> Greek (non-Jewish believer): for the same Lord over ALL is rich unto
> ALL that call upon him."
>
>
>        In Galations 3:28, it is written:
>
> "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free,
> there is neither male nor female: for you are ALL ONE in Christ
> Jesus"
>
>         In Galations 5:6, it is written:
>
> "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision (Jewish believer) availeth
> any thing, nor uncircumcision (non-Jewish believer) but faith which
> worketh by LOVE"
>
>          In Colossians 3:11 it is written:
>
> "Where there is neither Greek (non-Jewish believer) nor Jew (Jewish
> believer), circumcision (Jewish believer) nor uncircumcism
> (non-Jewish believer) ... but Christ is ALL and IN ALL"
>
>          In I Corinthians 13:2 it is written:
>
> "And though I have ... all knowledge (of Torah observance) ... and
> have not LOVE, I am NOTHING".
>
>          In John 13:35, Yeshua/Jesus spoke these words:
>
> "By THIS shall ALL MEN know that you are my disciples
> (students/followers): if you have LOVE one to another (Jewish and
> non-Jewish believer)"
>
>         In I John 3:14 it is written:
>
> "We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we
> LOVE  the BRETHREN . He that loveth not his brother abideth in death"
>
>         There is a VERY FAMOUS and ANCIENT Jewish song taken from
> Psalm 133. It is called, "Hene Ma Tov", and the songs says:
>
> "Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for BRETHREN (Jewish and
> non-Jewish believer) to dwell together in UNITY"
>
>        In Psalm 133:1,3 it is written:
>
> "Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell
> together in unity! ... for THERE (when brethren dwell together in
> unity) the Lord COMMANDED the BLESSING even life (CHAI ... La
> chayim) forevermore"
>
>        In Messiah, HE has broken down the wall of separation between
>
> Jew and non-Jew. Baruch HaShem!
>
>        If we are followers of Messiah (both Jew and non-Jew), let US
>   keep HIS commandments (and the greatest was LOVE for each other)
>   and dwell together in UNITY so that the blessing of God is COMMANDED
> upon  us (Psalm 133:3) and the world will KNOW that Yeshua/Jesus is
> Messiah !!!  (John 17:21).
>
> P.S. One of the best messages I have ever heard on this subject and
> how the Jewish believer attitude toward the non-Jewish believer (who
> is a type of Ruth) was given by Messianic Rabbi Jonathan Kahn at the
> 1996 MJAA conference.  It should be noted that Messianic Rabbi Kahn
> DOES believe that both Jewish and non-Jewish believer ARE one in
> Messiah and both should treat each other accordingly.
>
> For those intersted in this issue, I would encourage all of you to
> get this tape.
>

From:          Stephen Yulish
Subject:       RE:Jewish Believers
To:            heb_roots_chr@geocities.com

Yes, some of my Jewish believer brothers are haughty and prideful. I would
ask  you to forgive them for they know not what they do! I have a Messianic
fellowship, Chayim Chadashim, New Life, which teaches about the Jewishness
of
the gospel, Israel and end times prophecy. My co leader is a Christian who
is
also an elder at Flagstaff Christian fellowship, the conservative Baptist
Church
that sponsors Chayim Chadashim. In fact I am a deacon in the Church also. We
teach members of the Church as well people from Churches all over town about
the
Feasts and Israel. Last year we held a community wide Seder for 185 people.
I do not wear a kippah (yarmulke) or a tallit (prayershawl) at the
fellowship. I
could and did at the Seder but I usually do not. We sing songs in Hebrew and
English but we do not use a Messianic siddur(prayerbook). We are not
legalistic
and we all love yeshua Hamashiach. torah gives us all a guidepost to our
morality but we do not use it to judge each other.

I am now going through a study of Romans 9-11 using david stern's Jewish new
testament Commentary. it is excellent although I disagree with Dr. Stern's
posttrib viewpoint.

We need to stop judging and criticizing each other. We need to stop being
legalistic about torah commands. Many orthodox Jewish friends of mine think
that
rote obedience to torah commands makes them righteous. without faith and
trust
in Hashem it is meaningless. This so called righteousness is just like
filthy
rags.

We are one new man in Messiah. We need to love each other. if we cannot get
along here on earth imagine what  Heaven will be like!

Stephen Yulish PH.D.

**********************************************************************

From:          Rabbi Michael 'Mordecai' Silver
Organization:  Etz Chayim - Tree of Life Messianic Jewish Congregation
To:          heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com
Subject:       Attitudes

I have read with interest the recent postings regarding the attitude
of some in Messianic Judaism. As pointed out by Rabbi Westman, we are
ALL one, Jew and Gentile. As was also pointed out, Messianic Jews may
have a tendency to become propriatory about Torah Observance in
Messianic Faith due to the attitude of many in Christianity towards
the Jewishness of Christianity.

I, as a Messianic Jewish Rabbi, have been exposed to this attitiude on
many occasions by those who profess to be my brothers and sisters in
the Faith. My first reaction was to argue with them. My next reaction
was to ignore them. My present state of mind is to pray for them and
reach out, regardless of the reception, to help teach about the
Jewishiness of the Faith. Those of us who are Jewish by birth and have
lived our lives as Jews have an obligation to help our Gentile
brethren learn about where this faith of theirs came from. They are
losing so much of the richness of Christianity because they lack an
understanding of the Jewish Roots.

I am the leader of a congregation in an area of the country that lacks
a Jewish population. Yet those who come to our congregation, come to
learn and worship with us in a Jewish manner. I do not care whether a
person is Jewish or non-Jewish. I give glory to G-d for what He is
doing in bringing together Jewish believers and non-Jewish believers.
If some of us want to worship following Jewish tradition, then Glory
to Him. If there are those who worship Him following Christian manner,
then Glory to Him. Remember that there are many parts to the body and
that we all need to work together as one. We are all different. That
is what makes us so unique. There is no one right way to come before
G-d. But do not throw out the Jewish heritage of the Faith before you
taste of it. It has a wonderful flavor.

Messianic Jews are our best hope to reach those Jews who do not know
Y'shua as Messiah. Messianic Jews are our best hope in reaching out to
the Church. We are the bridge that joins both worlds together. I, for
one, reach out to my Christian brothers and sisters.

There has been hurt on both sides. We need to stop the name calling
and work together if we are to bridge the chasm that is opening
between us. The only one that wins in this is hasatan. He loves it.
The Jewish Roots movement is Ruach HaKodesh inspired. It is happening
all over the world. It is growing. We need to pray for one another
that attitudes change.

Please pray that we all can come together as one body but respecting
each other's roles. Messianic Jews have a role to play in G-d's plan
as well as Christians have their roles. Work for the Kingdom. We need
healing not new division.

I am a Torah Observant Messianic Jew. I am no better than my Christian
brethren. We are equal in the eyes of G-d.

In Mashiach,

Rabbi Mordecai Silver
--
Rabbi Michael Silver (Rav Mordecai Ben-Baruch)
Etz Chayim - Tree of Life Messianic Jewish Congregation
P.O. Box 364, Organ, NM 88052 (near sunny Las Cruces)

************************************************************************

From:          Chosen Arrow
To:            heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject:       Re: Jewish believer attitude toward non-Jews

....Jonathan Cahn is my pastor/rabbi.........I am a district pastor at
this congregation and appreciate Eddie's appreciation of the message
Jonathan gave on this subject. It is direct and very informative....I
hope you are blessed by it!

*************************************************************************

From:          DAVID NORDLING
To:            heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject:       Re: Jewish believer attitude toward non-Jews

Michael & Eddie Shalom!

I to am a Jewish believer in Yeshua and like Michael I believe that
submitting to the Torah of G-d is a matter of maturity in so far that
we come to an attitude of gratitude, serving the Holy One out of love
and wonderment and not just out of fear. Love is the key word here,
the Shema in ( Deuteronomy 6:4) teaches us to love the L-rd G-d with
all your heart, soul and strength. And when Yeshua is asked which is
the greatest commandment (Matthew 22:34-40) He reply's with the Shema
and then adds that we should " love your neighbor as yourself on these
two commandments hang all the Torah and Prophets". Selfishness or (
Self first ) is the opposite of love, we either put our selves before
G-d or we put our selves before our neighbor, this is the root of all
sin. In fact you can not sin without being selfish, you either put
your self before G-d or you put your self before man.

My point being this both sides of the church Jew and non Jew need to
learn to accept each other. On one side Jewish believers have
experienced much rejection at the hands of both our own people (
Jewish non believers ) and a largely non receptive non-Jewish church
body who view us and what we have to say with distrust. Why ? Think
about it if you were raised up to believe a certain way and along
comes someone telling you that what you have come to trust in and
believe in is not completely right how would react ? And if this is
done with an air of pride and superiority I would have to ask you just
who are you lifting up and exalting with this type of approach your
self or Yeshua ? And if you reject one who comes to share some new
truth just because he's Jewish where is the love in that Bride of
Messiah? We seem to forget that our salvation comes from a
relationship with He who has called us, and into what has He called us
to ? To a Torah of love.

Ahava b'Yeshua!
David

*************************************************************************

From:          Batya Wootten
To:            heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject:       Re: Jewish believer attitude toward non-Jews

Michael,

I think this attitude has to do with Isa 11:13, and "Ephraim's
"jealousy" of Judah (Ephraim: see Gen 48:19; Rom 11:25).  In turn,
Judah vexes Ephraim--by refusing to recognize him.

For more info, see our web page:

http://www.mim.net/

Batya Wootten

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