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To: Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup <heb_roots_chr@geocities.com>, Hebraic Heritage
Newsgroup 2 <heb_roots_chr@geocities.com>
Subject: Wine/Grapejuice in Biblical Times / For Passover
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:38:46 -0800
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From: Francois Smit
To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject: Re: Wine in Biblical times
Goodday!
I would like to know whether the wine that was used in Biblical
times is more or less the same as the wine we use nowadays? Or was
the alcohol content perhaps less? I know the process couldn't have
been the same, but I don't know what the implications are thereof.
Shalom,
Francois
******************************************************************
From: Cheryle Holeman
To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject: Wine in Biblical Times
Dear Francois,
At passover, Jews use special wine that does not have leaven in it.
It is judged "Kosher for Passover" on the bottle. This wine is
watched over by the priest to make sure that it doesn't have any
leaven (or "sin") in it.
**********************************************************************
From: Eddie Chumney
To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject: Wine in Biblical Times
There are two Hebrew used translated as "wine" in our English
Bible. The first word is the Strong's word (3196) and is the Hebrew
word, "yayin". This is alcoholic wine.
The second word is the Strong's word (8492). It is the Hebrew
word "tiyrosh". This is non-alcoholic grapejuice or sweet wine. This
is the type of wine that would have been used at Passover -
non-alcoholic wine. This kind of wine is often called in the Bible
"new wine".
While "Yayin" is declared "kosher for Passover" today,
Yeshua/Jesus would have partook of "Tiyrosh" at His seder. This is the
sweet non-alcoholic wine that is called in the Bible "new wine" and
"sweet wine". "Tiyrosh" is associated with the outpouring of God's
Holy Spirit.
The contrast between "Yayin" and "Tiyrosh" can be seen in
Joel. In Joel 1:5 it is written:
"Awake, ye drunkards and weep and howl, all ye drinkers of wine
(Yayin) ..."
In Joel 2:18-19, 24:
"Then will the Lord be jealous for his land, and pity his people. Yea,
the Lord will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send the
corn and wine (Tiyrosh) and oil and ye shall be satisfied ... and the
floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine
(Tiyrosh) and oil"
In Isaiah 65:8 it is written:
"Thus saith the Lord, As the new wine (Tiyrosh) is found in the
cluster ..."
In Proverbs 20:1 it is written:
"Wine (Yayin) is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is
deceived thereby is not wise"
So, we can see in these passages the contrast between
"Yayin" (alcoholic wine) which is used in a negative connotation and
"Tiyrosh" (non-alcoholic sweet, new wine) which is spoken of in a
positive connotation. Most assuredly, Yeshua/Jesus would have drank of
the "sweet wine" or "Tiyrosh".
**********************************************************************
To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
From: Randy Felton
Subject: Re: Wine in Biblical times / Passover
HI Eddie,
Would the "New Wine" simply be the same wine that has not gone through
or completed the fermentation process? Rembering that there is yeast
carried in the air which "start" the wine.
Shalom, Randy
>From Eddie:
***************
Yes, the "new wine" would be the same wine that has not
gone through the fermentation process.
**********************************************************************
To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
From: Ann Rogers
Subject: Wine in Biblical times/Passover
Hi Eddie:
Just to add some more fermentation to the juice......there are five
more words in the Hebrew for wine!
07941 (shekar) - strong drink, intoxicating drink, fermented or
intoxicating liquor (Nu 28:7)
02562 (chamar {Aramaic}) - wine (Ezra 6:9, 7:22; Dan. 5:1-2, Dan. 5:4,
Dan. 5:23)
05435 (cobe') - drink, liquor, wine (Isa. 1:22)
06071 ('aciyc) - sweet wine, wine, pressed out juice (Isa. 49:26)
06025 ('enab) - grape(s) (Hosea 3:1)
Shabbat shalom,
Annie
**********************************************************************
From: Daniel Lancaster
To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject: Wine in Biblical Times
Two questions concerning the New Wine grape juice theory? When is
the grape harvest in Israel and when is Passover. How did they keep
the grape juice from fermenting in 9 months? Did they vaccum pack
it? Condense it and freeze it? Where does this idea of Kosher
L'Pesach wine not being fermented come from? Do we have
documentation to support this? I'm just wondering.
Daniel
************************************************************************
To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
From: Lars-Toralf Storstrand
Subject: Re: Wine in Biblical times
Daniel,
They had a special technique, which is still in use in the Levant
today. They took freshly pressed grapejuice and boiled it for hours
and hours, until it was a very thick Syrup. This was always filled
into NEW wineskins, so not to ferment, and kept cold (under earth,
preferrably). Remember Israel was forrested almost like parts of
Canada at Yeshua's time not open and bare to the sun as it is today.
Sincerely, in the name,
Lars-Toralf
**********************************************************************
From: Mark Kretschmar
To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject: Re: Wine in Biblical times / Passover
All this wine stuff is very interesting. It has all been debated for
so long. Personally, I think it's very interesting, but it doesn't
really affect my decision to not drink.
My question however is, if new wine is non-alcoholic, why were the
apostles on the day of Pentecost accused of being drunk on new wine.
The commentary I looked in once, don't remember which one now, said
that "new wine" was particularily high in alcohol content. Just like
to hear what anyone has to say.
Grace and Peace be multiplied to you,
Mark Kretschmar
**********************************************************************
From: Julie Turner
To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject: RE: New wine
Dear Eddie:
It seems to me that you are maintaining that "new wine" or "sweet
wine"
is the non-alcoholic variety. But the passage you quote here defines
"new wine" as intoxicating:
>From Eddie:
***************
In Acts 2:13 it is written:
"Others MOCKING said, These men are full of new wine".
Therefore, the context of Acts 2 is that the people who
didn't understand the manifestation of the outpouring of the Ruach
HaKodesh / Holy Spirit were ACCUSING those who were receiving the
outpouring of the Holy Spirit of being drunk with intoxicating wine.
But, Peter said that they were not drunk with intoxicating wine but
this was the outpouring of G-d's Holy Spirit that was spoken in Joel 2.
>From Julie:
*************
This is precisely my point! New wine is--according to this passage of
scripture--intoxicating wine. You say it is not. It can't be
both--or do we have here garbled translations and understandings? My
question was not in regards to the Holy Spirit--it is about word
definitions.
>From Eddie:
***************
The "new wine" in (Joel 2:19, 24) is "Tiyrosh" which CAN be
alcoholic but is MOSTLY not. It is in this context that it is referred
to in (Joel 2:28-29) that Peter quoted (Acts 2:13-19). They were
ACCUSED of being drunk (but Peter declared plainly that they were not
but were drunk on the "new wine" of the outpouring of G-d's Holy
Spirit (Joel 2:19,24, 28-29). This "new wine" is "Tiyrosh" (Joel
2:19,24). It is the Strong's Word (8492) defined as:
"must or fresh grapejuice (as just sqeezed out), (rarely) fermented
wine: (new, sweet) wine"
Therefore, "Tiyrosh" is MOSTLY non-alcoholic.
**********************************************************************
From: Messianic Rabbi Yehoshua M Othniel
To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject: Re: Wine in Biblical times / Passover
Shabbat Shalom Eddie,
I've been following your discussion on the issue of wine and the
Passover and I wanted to add some comments which will not only
support what you've been sharing but will perhaps clarify some issues
for your readers.
You are correct regarding the Hebrew words Yayin and Tirosh. Yayin
(effervescing), is used approximately 83 out of 138 times to indicate
fermented grape juice which does have an intoxicating nature. This
fact is made quite plain from Scripture as you have shown by quoting
numerous texts in your discussion.
Tirosh ("must") is freshly pressed grape juice and is often rendered
new wine or sweet wine. Again you referenced several passages in your
discussion on the subject so I will not bother to repeat them here.
Both Yayin and Tirosh are made in the exact same way. Tirosh may
have a slightly intoxicating effect, this is borne out by a single text
found in Hos. 4:11, "Harlotry, wine (Yayin), and new wine, (Tirosh)
take away the understanding.
From the New Testament we see a further indication that Tirosh may
indeed have a intoxicating effect. In Acts 2:13 the Greek word used
is Gleuchos ("must"), which is rendered new or sweet wine. The charge
was made against the disciples of Jesus that they had become drunk
from drinking sweet wine. A charge which the Apostle Peter firmly
denied.
I mentioned that both Yayin and Tirosh were made in the same way,
this is true to an extent, even today. The issue arose regarding kosher
wine and wine that is kosher for Passover. What is the difference?
My father-in-law makes wine as a hobby. He will take pure fresh
grape juice and pour it into a 5 gal. container. He then adds a small
quantity of yeast which begins the firmentation process. When the
firmentation process is completed, my father-in-law then adds a
chemical agent which halts the firmentation process by killing off the
yeast. A clarification agent is then added to the new wine which
causes the sediment to settle to the bottom of the bottle and the wine
is then poured and strained into bottles and corked. The newly filled
bottles are then placed in a cool dark place and allowed to age. This
process is basically the same for kosher wine making with some
variations on account of Rabbinic law.
Wine that is kosher for Passover is made pretty much in the same
manner as described above, but with one very important difference. No
additional yeast is added to the juice. The large vats of grape
juice, (sweet, new wine or Tirosh) are exposed to the air which
contains yeast particles. Natural yeast can also be found on the
skins of the grapes and this adds to that which is in the air. The
yeast settles on the juice and in the juice and begins to digest the
natural sugars contained in the sweet wine. This digestion of sugar by
the yeast is what we call firmentation, and the end result is alcohol.
The more alcohol the less sweet the wine. When the wine has reached
the point of firmentation desired, the firmentation process is halted
by either adding a natural chemical or by heat. If the firmentation
process were left alone you'd end up with wine vinegar! Cheap wine in
the days of Y'shua was wine that had turned sour, meaning that it
tasted like vinegar in that it had been allowed to turn.
So, while Yayin was known for its intoxicating effect, Tirosh also
could contain small amounts of alcohol depending on how long it had
been allowed to sit. Fresh grape juice if allowed to sit long enough
will start to turn just as all natural Apple Cider will turn hard if
left alone. Commercial grape juice does not turn because it's heated
which kills off the natural yeast.
Now let's turn to a more important point that some of your readers
have over looked. At Passover we are commanded to remove the Chametz or
leven from our homes. No one can get all the leven out of his/her
home, it's impossible. Yeast is in the air and tends to settle on the
surfaces of our dwellings and even on us. So unless you live your
life in a high level "Clean Room" you can never really be leven free.
Ha'Shem commanded that we remove the chametz from our homes and so
we do. Leavened bread is put out, yeast, baking powder, etc. This is a
picture, we do the best we can and trust The Holy One; blessed is He,
to do the rest. Once we've removed the chametz from our homes we
offer a special prayer to Ha'Shem that if we missed any leven, that He
will not hold it against us but will make it as if it were not leven.
There is just so much that we as human beings can do to draw near to
God. We must trust God to meet us and draw us in the rest of the way.
This is the essence of faith for both Jew and the non-Jew.
Now let me share one last insight. Remember how I mentioned that my
father-in-law adds yeast to the tirosh? The act of adding yeast is a
picture of our sin. In B'raesheet, (Genesis) chapter 1, verse 31 it
reads, "And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was
very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth
day."
God does not need our help to improve upon His creation, it's fine
just the way it was. However when Man decides that he can add to what G-d
has made, there is trouble a plenty! Adam and Chavah decided they
could improve themselves by eating of the Tree of Knowledge of Good &
Evil. Abraham and Sarah's urging tried to help God by Abraham
fathering a child, Ishmael, with Hagar. We are still reaping the
curse for that one.
My point is that when Man adds to the things of God the result is
intoxication or the clouding of our senses; I am speaking of the
spiritual senses here. When we can't hear clearly the Ruach, we often
fall into sin, just as a drunk will likely fall into a ditch!
Wine, both Yayin and Tirosh are not evil. In Yashua's day, both
types of wine were diluted with water before being drunk which helped to
prevent the intoxicating effects. I forget where I saw this reference,
but I once read that one of our sages was quoted as saying, "He who
does not take water with his wine is a Barbarian!" Scripture tells us
to not drink to excess, to be drunk with wine. We are told to avoid
strong drink, the Hebrew word for strong drink is "Shekar".
In conclusion let me say this to the couple who's friendship has
been strained by this wine issue. Whenever I hold a public service, I do
not serve wine, but commercially made kosher grape juice, (Tirosh).
Privately at home with my family I serve Yayin, but in small amounts
and never to excess. Either is acceptable according to Jewish Law so
don't let yourself become legalistic over this issue and destroy a
friendship.
I hope my comments have helped.
Chag samaeach,
Rabbi O.
**********************************************************************
To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
From: Levi Avriel ben Avram
Subject: Re: Wine in Biblical times / Passover
Dear Eddie:
I would like to comment on this issue concerning wine in Biblical
times and especially Passover. I have lost close friends over this
(unfortunately), but God began to work on me and instruct me in this
(Ps. 32:8). The Scriptures have the answer as they always do.
Numbers 6:1-4: We can all rationalize our behavior because we don't
want to be submissive unto Yeshua. Therefore, we tend to create
crutches to justify our fleshly desires. I used to be "the" wine
drinker/sipper and I could rationalize that, then I just drank wine
socially and at special occasions, and I could rationalize that. Then
the Holy Spirit began to work in my life and show me that being Holy
unto God sets one free from trying to rationalize things (bondage).
However, if you are not lead by Rauch HaKodesh you end up with
legalism. Legalism is a tool of satan to seek and destroy. That is
what's happening in Jan and Derek's situation. In their situation,
they should refrain from drinking wine when their friend with them.
Why, because it is causing each to stumble into sin.
Yeshua was a Nazarene and I believe He was totally separated unto God
the Father. Not partaking wine is was not a personal self-discipline
but rather an act of total devotion to God. Remember, the Nazarene vow
governed three areas of his or her life: diet, appearance, and
association.
What's interesting though, is I have gained more respect now for my
decision to NOT drink wine or any other fermented drink. My conviction
is a witness especially to those who want to make sure my actions
match my beliefs.
Shalom,
Levi Avriel ben Avram
**********************************************************************
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