HHMI Newsgroup Archives

Subject:  Re: Sons and Stones...
Date:     Sat, 7 Dec 1996 10:31:32 +0000
From:     heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com
Reply-To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
To:       "Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup"<heb_roots_chr@geocities.com>

To:          heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
From:        jstrimm@nexus-3.flash.net (Inga Trimm)
Subject:     Re: Sons and Stones...


>-
>To:         heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
>Subject:    Sons and Stones...
>From:       thelandon5@juno.com (Jonathan K. Landon)


>From:       jstriiran@nexus-3.flash.net (James Scott & Ingrid Triirnn)
>Subject:    SONS and STONES of THE HOUSE OF GOD
>
>
>> I note that in HEBREW GOSPEL OF MATTHEW by George Howard (who
>>lurks among us) p. 185 is note a wordplay in the Shem-Tob Hebrew
>>Matthew in 16:18:
>>>
>>>         You are a stone (even), and upon you I will build (eveneh)
>>>         my house of prayer,
>>>
>
>I take some exception to this rendering from Greek into the Hebrew.

Actually Dr. George Howard has well demonstrated in his book that Shem Tob
is not a rendering from Greek but that the Hebrew text represented by it
served as a model for Greek Matthew.  As I have shown conclusively in my
book THE SEMITIC ORIGIN OF THE NEW TESTAMENT (Pub. by Heb/Aram NT Research
Institute PO BOX 471 Hurst TX 76053) the entire NT was first written in a
Semitic language and then translated into Greek.

>The word in Greek for Church is not "house of prayer"  (oikia proseuches).
>lt is ecclesia^ which is literally a "congregation" or "assembly. "  In
>the Septuagint, ecclesia is usually a translation of yarad, which refers
>to the assembly of the people, not to the place, and definitely not to
>the building, since the term is definitely used in locations where there
>IS no building.
>

The best LXX equivelant for EKKLESIA is KAHOL (assembly).

>"House of prayer" implies Christ is referring to the institutional,
>visible church,  ecclesia puts the emphasis on the PEOPLE.  The
>invisible church, which is the unity of souls united in and by Christ is
>a more defensible meaning of ecclesia here.

House of Prayer is a euphamism for the Temple which is also called "House
of God" in Hebrew it is common to substitute words like "heaven" "power" or
"prayer" for "God" so as not to make over abundant use of it. The spiritual
Temple is also made up of the people of the assembly in Paul's allegories.
However in this case I think that this is  a substitution meant to clarify
the passage and that the DuTillet presrves the correct reading with KAHOL.

      * Mt. 16:18-19 "...I will build my church... I will give you the
        keys of the Kingdom... "  Replacement theologians aledge that this
        passage identifies the Church with the Kingdom.  It is easier to
        understand this passage if we first understand its sister passage
        in Mt. 18:15-18.  Both passages discuss a "church" which has the
        power to "bind" or "loose".  Now the terms "bind" and "loose" are
        Hebrew/Aramaic idiomatic expresions meaning to "permit" or
        "prohibit" [as in the usage of the Talmud [j. Ber. 5b; 6c; j. San.
        28a; b.Ab. Zar. 37a; b .Ned. 62a; b.Yeb. 106a; b. Bets. 2b; 22a;
        b.Ber. 35a; b.Hag. 3b] and Mt. 18:16 quotes Dt. 19:15 regarding
        witnesses before the court (Dt. 19:15-21).  The topic of Mt. 18
        thus appears to be that of the authority to administer courts
        which permited or prohibited (as pictured in Acts 15).  Now the
        word "church" here in the Greek is "ekklesia"; in the Hebrew
        "kahol" and in the Aramaic "edat" all of these words simply mean
        "assembly" (in fact "ekkiesia" is the word used for "assembly"
        throughout the Septuagent).  The word does not always refer to the
        Body of Messiah, sometimes it refers to a mob (Acts 19:41)
        sometimes the "assembly" of Israel (Acts 7:38) and sometimes it
        can refer to a court (as in Acts 19:39).  Since Mt. 18:16 quotes
        Dt. 19:15 then the assembly spoken of in Mt. 18:17 must be "...the
        judges who serve in those days. " mentioned in Dt. 19:17.  Now if
        the "church" which "binds" and "looses" in Mt. 18:15-18 is a
        "court" (such as in Acts 7:38) then the same "church" mentioned
        in Mt. 16:18-19.  The "keys of the Kingdom" refers to this
        legislative authority (Rev. 3:7 = Is. 22:22).  This "church" is
        the ruling council which is see meeting in Acts 15.

>> In my book THE SEMITIC ORIGIN OF THE NEW TESTAMENT I note a similar
>> wordplay in Mt. 3:9 in the DuTillet version between "sons" (b'nai)
>>and stone (evan) the same wordplay also occurs in Shem-Tob (I do not
>>know if George Howard has noted it
>> anywhere). Just tonight while working on my translation I ran
>>across similar wordplay in the Peshitta NT of Ephesians 2:19-22, In
>Eph,
>>2:19 reads:
>>>

>>> 19 Wherefore, you are not strangers, nor sojourners, but you are
>>> fellow-citizens who are sanctified, and sons of the House of God
>>> "House of God" fits well here since it is a euphamism for the Temple
>>being spoken of in the following verses (20-22). there is also a
>wordplay

>>> between "sons" (b'nai) "to build" (b'na) and "building" (banaia) in
>these
>>passages.

>>> The early believers saw themselves as "sons of the House of God" and
>>by way of wordplay "stones" of the "building" of the Teniple.
>>>

>>> Any thoughts?
>

>What word was used for "house?" Without seeing the source text, I come
>up with (beyt) which doesn't look like (beyn or b'nai), to me,

re-read. The wordplay is with "to build" (b'na) and "building" (banaia)

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