HHMI Newsgroup Archives
From: heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com Sent: Friday, May 9, 1997 1:43 AM To: Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup Subject: Re: Should Christians convert to Judaism ??? heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com wrote: > > >FNAME=Lynn > >LNAME=Kreager > >COMMENTS=I am wondering if a Christian can become Jewish and keep their belief in Messiah or if the person must renounce this belief.. > > > > > > ************************************************************************ > From: "John Parsons" <vmax@goldengate.net> > To: "Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup" > Subject: I'm a newbie "rooter"; where do I begin? > > Shalom Mishpakah! > > I am new to the "rooter" group and am excited about learning all I can about the Hebrew/Jewish roots of our faith in Y'shua Ha Massiach. I > have decided to study Hebrew (thanks to many of you who helped me get started on this!) and I hope to begin reading from the Hebrew > prayerbook soon. > > My question: What next? I puchased David Stearn's Jewish New Testament (and Commentary) and have begun reading, but I feel like I > am jumping in mid-stream with you more experienced "rooters." I know nothing about keeping Kosher or becoming Torah observant.... do any of > you think that I (a non-Jew) should convert to Judaism in order to more fully express my faith in Y'shua? > > >From Eddie: > *************** > > Should a non-Jew (Christian) convert to Judaism in order to more fully express your faith in Y'shua? The answer is NO! NEVER !!! > > I have seen several reactions among believers when they hear / learn about the Hebraic/Jewish roots of Christianity. > > One kind of reaction comes from the traditional church going Christian who has been taught and has it firmly planted in his mind > that "we are not under the law". They then respond, "Why are you trying to make me Jewish and why are you doing all those "Jewish things". > Don't you know that we aren't under the law?" > > Of course, this person only understands the Bible through the eyes of the salvation message and > church tradition concerning the teachings regarding the Torah/law. > > The salvation oriented Christian views "embracing the Hebraic/Roots of Christianity" through the eyes of salvation and the CORRECT > Christian teaching that we are not saved by keeping the law but by the grace of G-d. This is TRUE!! But, what they fail to understand is > that the ROOTS of Christianity is BIBLICAL Judaism and that non-Jewish Bible believers are commanded by G-d to keep the sabbath > and the Biblical festivals and the ROOTS of Christmas and Easter are pagan. These "salvation oriented" Christians fail to understand that > keeping the sabbath and the Biblical Festivals will be kept by believers during the Messianic Age and for all eternity as this is > how G-d instructed His people to live their lives AFTER they have accepted Yeshua/Jesus as Messiah and are saved. > > The second reaction is from Christians who have Jewish hearts and a love for Israel and are so swept away by these feelings and so > overtaken when they understand some of the paganism in Christianity and when they find out that the scriptures are Jewish and how much the > Bible reveals from understanding it from a Hebraic/Jewish perspective that they then begin to think that Judaism is the greatest thing > since sliced bread and want to convert to Judaism. > > This reaction is just as irrational as the "salvation oriented" Christian who rejects the Hebraic/Jewish Roots of Christianity > because they are "not under the law". > > It is UNTHINKABLE that a person who believes that Yeshua/Jesus is Messiah will convert to a faith that does not accept Yeshua/Jesus as > Messiah. > > If you converted, would you convert to Reform Judaism? Do they understand that Reform Judaism rejects that the Bible DIVINELY > came from G-d? Do they understand that Reform Judaism accepts homosexuality and abortion as being OK? Do they understand > that Reform Judaism doesn't believe in a personal Messiah or a future Temple? > > If you converted, would you convert to Orthodox Judaism? Do they understand the Orthodox Judaism puts the Oral Law ABOVE the written > law? Do they understand that Orthodox Judaism will not convert you if you believe that Yeshua/Jesus is Messiah? > > So, you have a choice of converting to a sect that doesn't believe that the Bible DIVINELY came from G-d (Reform) or to a faith that > doesn't believe that Yeshua/Jesus is Messiah. This doesn't seem like a valid and sensible thing to do. > > Yet, the Bible is a Jewish book both OT and NT. Yeshua/Jesus was a Torah observant Jew, his disciples were Torah observant Jews, the > Apostle Paul was a Torah observant Jew. Yet, in order to understand the scriptures more fully, you need to understand the customs and > practices of ancient Israel and Judaism. And Christianity has departed from the roots of it's faith. > > So, where is the balance. Understanding the Hebraic/Jewish Roots of Christianity should ENHANCE your faith in Yeshua/Jesus as Messiah and > the ways of the Kingdom of Heaven. It should make your Christianity more meaningful and more fulfilling. But, if you begin to learn and > embrace the Jewish roots of Christianity and then desire to convert to Judaism then you may as well never studied the Hebraic/Roots of > Christianity. > > I need to make myself and these views strong and clear and my heart aches when I hear that Christians who believe that Yeshua/Jesus is > Messiah desire to convert to Judaism as a result of studying the Hebraic/Jewish Roots of Christianity. > > In this newsgroup, I distribute at times, Orthodox Jewish teachings on the Weekly Torah portion and other series like the Study of > Jerusalem series and the basics of Judaism series. This is provided to help you STUDY and LEARN about the ROOTS of Christianity and to be > able to understand BOTH the OT and NT from a Jewish mindset NOT for the purpose of converting to Judaism. > > Let us embrace MOST of all that Yeshua/Jesus is Messiah and then embrace the Hebraic/Jewish roots of our faith to better understand > HIM and HIS teachings and the ways of the Kingdom of Heaven to make our faith as believers in Yeshua/Jesus as Messiah more meaningful and > more fuller. > > > One last question: Messianics belive in the full deity of Y'shua, yes? I mean, is the Trinity a "kosher" concept or a case > > of gentilization? > > > > >From Eddie: > ************** > > There are NOT three separate God's but God is ECHAD --- He is a compound unity that expresses Himself in the form Yeshua/Jesus who > took upon Himself a human body and in the form of the Holy Spirit (Ruach HaKodesh). Yeshua/Jesus is the MANIFESTED WORD OF G-D. The > Holy Spirit (Ruach HaKodesh) is the MANIFESTED POWER OF G-D. Yeshua/Jesus is also G-d manifested in the flesh. He is and claimed > to be YHVH. > > > > >It's obvious, I suppose that I am as "a newborn babe, sincerely desiring the Word of Truth." Any advice for a newbie??? Please > >reply! > > > > > >Toda raba ba shem Y'shua, > > > >John Parsons > > > > vmax@goldengate.net > > > > II Timothy 2:15 is good advice. It is written: > > "Study to show thyself approved of God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed ..." > > I would also suggest that you read several books: > > #1) Our Father Abraham by Dr. Marvin Wilson > #2) Jesus and the Original Church by Dr. Ron Moseley > #3) Jesus the Jewish Theologian by Dr. Brad Young > #4) The Seven Festivals of the Messiah and Who is the Bride of Christ? by myself (Eddie Chumney). > > This should get you started in the right direction if you are a beginner. > > Eddie Chumney > *********************************************************************** From: "John Parsons" <vmax@goldengate.net> To: <heb_roots_chr@geocities.com> Subject: Re: Should Christians convert to Judaism ?? Shalom Eddie, Thanks for your helpful reply to my question. God bless you, keep you, shine upon you! Ba shem Y'shua, John Parsons ************************************************************************** From: Vaughan Nankivell <vaughan.nankivell@xtra.co.nz> Reply-to: vaughan.nankivell@xtra.co.nz To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com Subject: Re: Should Christians convert to Judaism ??? Eddie: Well said - I think it addresses accurately the feelings of a gentile believer (such as myself) who returns to a heritage he/she never knew they had and also maintains a balanced perspective for personal and spiritual growth in Yeshua. Thank you for addressing it. Blessings. Vaughan. ************************************************************************ From: peggy <crystal@pcis.net> To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com Cc: crystal@pcis.net Subject: Re: Should Christians convert to Judaism ??? Eddie: Thank you for all that you do. I agree with you. just because you have been given a path and truth does not take away from who you are in the Messiah. I can no more change the circumstances of my birth nor the knowledge that was given to me that the O.T. and the N.T was written by the same loving G-d who does not change. What I can change with the help of the HolySpirit is my heart by studing and letting HIM teach me what I should do and not do. I love my Jewish brothers as my own. I am adopted into the kingdom through the O.T sacrifice of my L-rd. I pray for Jerusalem as the Word of G-d tells me and I seek to better myself in the eyes of G-d through study. It's a beginning everyday. My salvation is not in question but my intimate walk with Hashem is what I long to strengthen. I reach out a hand to my brothers and sisters not in condemnation (i try) but in Love to show my love of G-d. Which is greatest? Love thy L-rd thy G-d with all your heart body mind and soul, Or love your neighbor as you do yourself. Both interact with each other. How can you outwardly show your love of G-d without doing the other? It is what G-d's Word is about. I love because HE loves me. I give because I recieve. Nothing is more fulfilling than this. As you well know I could go on for hours if not days on this subject. I follow a Jewish King, L-rd and Master and I am happy. He came that all should have everlasting life if they believe in HIM. hmmmm nice. IN HIM peggy ************************************************************************ From: SNUG <SNUG@prodigy.net> Reply-to: SNUG@prodigy.net Organization: Prodigy Internet To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com Subject: Re: Should Christians convert to Judaism ??? Dear Eddie Thanks for your answer to John Parsons. This is the most direct answer I have heard in terms of your views on conversion to Judaism. I am encouraged to read your admonitions against a naive conversion to Judaism. I have written a number of times and am completely confused as to why you would not post my views on this news group. I understand that there are extreme differences between bibilical "judaism" and other judaisms. I have stated that I am very concerned that people who are coming out of the delusions of Christianity are walking blindly into the delusions of Judaism - and there are many delusions. Thank you for putting some truths out there concerning these delusions and in some cases, out right lies. The fact that there are many lies out there concerning the word of God is not news to God. He is very clear that there are many "shepherds" leading people astray. (I'm sure you know Ezekiel and Jesus' own words to the Pharisees.) People are very vulnerable to blindly falling in love with Judaism as they go through the pains of leaving traditional Christianity. Thanks for encouraging a more mature approach to some of the most difficult decisions that a believer may ever make. Martha ************************************************************************** From: Housedavid@aol.com To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com Subject: Re: Should Christians convert to Judaism ??? Dear Eddie, I appreciate your wise counsel to the fellow who asked about converting to Judaism. It has been our experience that many non-Jews, upon hearing about the "Jewish roots" of Christianity, begin to think it is "better" to be a Jew. Thus, they become "jealous" of the Jew (Isa 11:13). We find it helps to make these "jealous" ones aware of the fact that, while First Century "Jews" did write the New Covenant, the people of Rabbinic Judaism have had nothing whatever to do with taking forth the truth that the Holy One of Israel has "given" us His Son. Instead, the Father ordained that the Israelites whom He destined would be "scattered" among "every nation," and thus would become the "fullness of the Gentiles," or the "melo hagoyim"-meaning those of Ephraim Israel-the Father ordained that they would promote that Gospel truth (Gen 48:19; Rom 11; Hos 1-2; 8:8; Amos 9:9). We find it helps those of non-Jewish Ephraim Israel to understand that, as the promised "fullness of Gentiles," they too are part of the people of Israel. For, when they do see the truth that they too are part of the Divine plan, then, they do not feel like second-class citizens, and they do not feel the need to convert to Judaism in order to "belong." These melo hagoyim need to be taught that, as a people, even though they are guilty of having distorted Messiah's message, still, it has been for them even as Isaiah prophesied: "Both the houses of Israel...stumble" over the One who is a "Sanctuary" (Isa 8:14; John 2:19-22). As you know, we all understand that those of Judah have been "blinded" to the truth of Messiah, and thus "stumble" over Him (Isa 8:14; Rom 11), and yet we treat them with mercy and respect. Even so, we need to encourage those who wish to return to their "Hebraic roots," to treat those of Ephraim Israel with the same mercy and respect. For Ephraim too has been "blinded," albeit with them, it is a blinding to the truth of their own Israelite roots, as well as to the truths of Torah (Jer 31:18-19; Gen 48:19; Rom 11:25). Today, we have two partially blinded peoples: The house of Judah, who cannot see the truth that Yeshua is the Messiah, and the house of Ephraim Israel, those who cannot see the truth of their own Israelite roots. Restated, we have one house of Israel that does not Who it is that they are to celebrate, and another house of Israel that does not know how to celebrate Him. To bring total healing and restoration to all Israel, to "the two families which Yahveh chose" (Jer 33:24), to put the "two sticks" back together (Eze 37:15-28), we must treat both houses with just weights and measures, and, we must give credit where credit is due. And certainly it is Ephraim Israel who has at least tried to tell the world about the Father's Son. Let us encourage them in that, at the very least, they have been privileged to know Who they are to celebrate. And speaking of "encouraging" people, please be encouraged in your efforts to encourage all Israel in their celebration of Messiah. I Wish You Shalom, Shalom, Batya Wootten Director House of David ********************************************************************** To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com From: tstewart@worldchat.com (terry stewart) Subject: Re: Should Christians convert to Judaism ??? Dear Eddie, I really appreciate this news service in general that you provide. This article is an excellent one you wrote regarding a balanced approach to studying our hebraic Jewish roots as believers in Messiah Jesus. The Lord has given me a strong love for the Jewish people, yet I know that it is because of the finished work of the Cross, what Jesus did for us, that gives us eternal life. I know also, that the Holy Spirit has given me a fresh desire to explore the Jewish roots of Christianity but to always remember that the New Covenant is established on better promises as in Hebrews 8:6 or 8:8. I do pray for the peace of Jerusalem regularly. Also, I belong to Hamilton Christian Fellowship, a charismatic evangelical congregation in the west end of Hamilton, Ontario. We have a deep love and desire to see the Jewish people in our city come to know Messiah as Lord. We have about 5,000 Jewish people in Westdale, part of Hamilton, there are a few Messianic believers among them. Also, at a recent intercessory prayer conference at Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship (Holocaust Memorial weekend May 3-5) we had prayer for Israel. The Lord wants us to continue to walk in the New Covenant that He wrote on our hearts at the Cross. Shalom and blessings in Messiah Jesus, Terry Stewart Burlington, Ontario. ***********************************************************************
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